winniepooh_ank

There is no contradiction. Evolution is infinite. I named a certain level in evolution to be one with God. But God is also infinite. So evolution still continues after being one with God. The best example of evolution for Muslims is the life of our Prophet Mohammed. He prayed to God to create other beings like himself, God had accepted his wish and created this world and all other realms connected to this world. God also gave the duty to Prophet Mohammed to be the highest level of manager to manage the realms that would be created with his prayer. As a very high spirit, Mohammed may have stayed within God's realms, however he chose to be a prophet and help other spirits in their evolutions. All of us have been created due to his prayer. (All of us means, the human race which started with Adam and Eve)

Dear Et-thoughts, I undestand the impact that notion of karma has brought to your belief system. I would like to look at the topic from an different angle. Could you tell me what the purpose having many incarnations in this world? Let me give my view. The reason for many reincarnations is spiritual evolution. You may think this world as a school. But then next question: What is the curriculum of this school, called "world"? Our world and us are created by the energies of God's 99 Beautiful Names. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Islam) The curriculum of all the reincarnations is to get the energies of God's names into our soul. For instance, Al-Adl,(The Utterly Just) A person has to learn the meaning of being just, justice. If you do not live respecting the notion of justice, if you kill somebody in one of your lives, you can go to jail to learn the concept of justice. He can learn this lesson from the hard way. Or he can be a good guy, he does not kill, he does not steal, etc. and learn the lesson of justice and being just. Meanwhile, if he kills somebody, he can or cannot be killed in one of his future life, depending on his evolution not only in this world but also in his afterlife as evolution also continues after the death.

I have no obejection to your desire mentioning a few words. My request is to understand them if you are telling them to me. That is all.

Dear Et-thoughts, Yes, indeed it was an insult. You made some comments but I think they have nothing to do with karma. By the way, could you please let us know, what nationality are you? I got curious.

Dreams are very important. But the majority of dreams are the result of subconscious and daily incidents. But some dreams are actually a projection of astral realms. The person who is having the dream actually watches the astral realm and similar to a medium, he/she can see astral realm with his/her physical conscience. However, this astral view is somehow distorted. This is the reason, somebody needs the assitance of a master who knows these distortions and this master should interpret the dream and manage the person to do the right thing in his/her path. This technique is the main technique of sufism.

I understood your last sentences. Actually, I forgot the topic of discussion. Please feel free to ask your questions, but please, one thing at a time!

Sir, I hope there is an insult policy of this forum. Please watch your mouth and do not call any body as "silly" I am defending that karma and sin are inter related. You disagree? Fine! But you do not have the right to say an insult. If you are a civilized man of course. Taoist schools have a great variety of applications about sex. In some sects or schools, sex is strictly prohibited as it will ruin the certain practices of that particular school. Some schools defend a way of cultivation together with your partner. So there is no one approach to sex in Taoism. But it is not a taboo as in Western culture if this is what you meant by "Taoism has no hang ups about sex." The cases which had been mentioned is for the same married man. So changes from individual to individual is not a variable in this example. I repeat: The same person! Is it clear now? You are stating the common definiton of karma when you say: "One is drawn into the cycles of karma until they learn the lessons attached to their desires and become free of them." I certainly disagree with this definition. For many years, I believed the same sentence and even tried to find ways to clear my karma that I inherited from my past lives. I am smiling now at these concepts. Nonsense. Have you cleared any of your karma? Or have you seen anybody who has cleared his/her karma either from his/her present life and/or past lives? Have you? Forget to clear your karma, could you state, just state one of your karma either from this life or from your past lives? Can anybody know one of his/her karma? Just an example? If karma is a result of unfulfilled desires, as everybody including you claim in this forum, then, for instance, Mother Teresa could have generated more karma than Adolf Hitler, in case Mother Teresa has more unfulfilled desires than Adolf Hitler. Teoretically, this may happen? Does it make sense?

Finally I am understanding your English? Thanks God! If he does not commit adultery, then we are in Case 1. Will Karma be created in Case 1? or under which conditions will there be karma for this case? This is definitely a function of what is happening in his heart. Even if he does not commit the sin, there will be a point of rust in his heart. This rust is smaller than the rust of Case 2 definitely, but still there will be a rust. "Rust in the heart" is a term used in Holy Quran. Sure No 83, Sure Name:Al-Mutaffifin (The Defrauders) Ayet No:14 "Nay, but their hearts are corroded by all [the evil] that they were wont to do!" (that which they were earning has covered their hearts with rust": implying that their; persistence in wrongdoing has gradually deprived them of all consciousness of moral responsibility and, hence, of the ability to visualize the fact of God's ultimate judgment.) If you continue doing evil things, these points of rust cover all the heart. This is a very sad situation for a human being.

I certainly disagree with your appoach "Sometimes I just mention a few key words that are more than enough for some to grasp the idea." Personally, I understood nothing from your long sentences. However, there is a certain progress in your last posts. I hope this progress continues

Dear Sinan, My brother's name is also Sinan, I am regarding you as a brother. In English language, I can recommend Robert Frager's books on Sufism. Especially, his book "Heart, Self and Soul: A Sufi Approach to Growth, Balance and Harmony" (http://www.amazon.co...50141604&sr=1-4) is a must read. The most important concept for Westerners is the concept of Nafs (Nefs in Turkish) which means self. This book explains the seven levels of nafs (yes nafs is also related with seven chakra) and also a very good chapter about heart. I can also recommend "Essential Sufism" (http://www.amazon.co...50141604&sr=1-3) gives a general look. I can also recommend Kabir Helminski's books. One of them is "The Knowing Heart: A Sufi Path of Transformation" (http://www.amazon.co...50142046&sr=1-2) Please stay away from Osho. He is negative. I practiced Xing Shen Zhuang Fa (XSZF) and Sheng Zheng Gong (SZG) Level 1&2 of David Verdesi, a preliminary exercises to be practiced from Neigong (NG) Level 1. I have close friends who has also practiced who has practiced the whole set XSZF, SZG, NG. I know sifus of John Chang, Wang Liping, Jiang Sifu and other real masters who has real powers too. Neigong powers are just too dangerous both physically and spiritually. Remember master of John Chang killing everybody in the village when he was level 30. Even you are level 72 in Thunderpath, you still have nafs, and with great powers you may do really great evil if you obey Satan even for a minute. If you really want to practice something, for instance practice Zhan Zhuang with Lam Kam Chuen. since you are in UK. You may also practice taijiquan.

Sir, God created us for evolution. In sufism a good metaphor for this is thinking us like water droplets. Water droplets that evaporate, become rain, goes in a river and finally reaches the sea again. This evolution is infinite as God is also infinite. The spirits that reach e certain level become one with God. These are known as "we" or "us" in Holy Quran. In Holy Quran sometimes plural pronouns are used such as "We have created you" and sometimes singular such as "God (Allah) is great". The holy spirits who has become one with God rules and manages the lower realms by the authority given to them by God. When these Holy Spirits incarnate in the world, they live as prophets and saints. In Islam, prophet Muhammed is the highest level of these spirits and that is the reason he is the last prophet. As a summary, God wants all the spirits that incarnate as human beings to evolve such that they reach the level of "we" in Holy Quran. Obviously, God does not need us but we need God. If God did not created us, we would not exist today. Thank you for your kind words about Turkey. I have been to London in 1985 and it was a lovely city.

We are discussing karma and do you really believe that any body could be persuaded to change his/her religion after reading this forum. Or have you seen me trying to convert any body from his/her religion or belief system to my religion/belief system? Do not make me laugh. Besides, in Holy Quran, Sura 109, Ayet 6 : You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion. Nobody, even prophet Muhammed does not have the authority to force anything. One just can tell his belief. It is up to every body to choose their religion.

Again, English is not my native language, so many vocabulary that I do not know, omnipresent, spatially, proximal, deific proximity, contingent, dissolve (like sugar in water?) omnipotent. I am going home, it is 00:25, half past midnight in Turkey

Dear Sir, Again, English is not my native language. I tried to follow you but I failed. Introduction-Development-Result is not equal to Data-Claim-Warrant. You again misunderstood me. I did not tell you to write as 1. 2. 3. but rather I told you to write an essay as in Literature class with Introduction - Development - Result. Is it clear now?

Thank you Sir! I also wish that my humble words help readers of this forum to progress in Takva, to be closer to God.

I am sorry, but mainly actions create karma instead of unfulfilled desires. I do not understand how an unfulfilled desire will create karma? For instance, for a married man, Case 1: You have a desire to have sex with a beautiful lady who is not your spouse. (I gave the example to be much more easy for Taoists to understand) but you do not have sex because it will be adultery and a sin. Case 2: You have a desire to have sex with the same beautiful lady who is not your spouse, and you fulfilled your desire and have sex with her although you are aware that it is adultery and a sin. Which case causes karma? My answer: Case no 2 will create much much more karma than Case no 1

Dear Sinan Sencer, It is a little bit funny to make this discussion in English language as we are both Turkish. In tasavvuf (sufism according to Westerners), God is a being (summe hasa, never a person) that judges you and also God is everything you are part of. I see you are a little bit confused. May I suggest to read "Suurlu Inanc" books Vol 1 and 2 in Turkish. Many things will be clarified for you. In God's view, every human being has equal rights and God loves us all. The only superiority of a human from another is to be closer to God, to have more progress in takva (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqwa) which means to be closer to God. For instance, a prophet has more takva than a normal person, he is more closer to God. Holy Quran wants every body to progress in takva, to be closer to God. You are referring to Enel-Hak (Anā l-Ḥaqq) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansur_Al-Hallaj) by asking if we are God? No, we are not God, but we have God's trust (emanet) in our hearts which consists of 99 beautiful names of God (http://en.wikipedia....of_God_in_Islam) People living in Africa have been incarnated to those lives to pay debts of their previous lives. We have many reincarnations in order to be graduates of the school called "Earth" or "World"

When you say "state of Wu-Wei" which meaning do you refer to? If you are referring to meanings such as "non-action" or even "effortless action", I agree with you. If you are referring to meaning "action which does not create karma" I have to disagree

Dear Sir, I certainly agree that Taoism has Shamanic origins. But as Shamanism is often misunderstood in the West, please allow me to explain a few words about it. Shamanism is not a religion. Shaman is mainly the leader, sometimes military commander and warrior , but mostly the healer of the tribe. I am Turkish and the ancient religion of Turks (many thousand years ago in Central Asia and today's China) were a monotheistic, Kok Tengri (Holy God) religion. Ancient Turks also practiced shamanism mainly for healing and attracting the divine energies (nur) of God from higher realms. (The same God in Abrahamic religions)

There is no difference between the terms "YHWH" and "Hebrew God" as they imply Judaism. And yes, I am offended because I believe God is every human's God not just Hebrews' I strongly disagree that the term God is borrowed from Sumerian sources (3000 B.C. or even 4000-4500 B.C.). The prophet Noah and the flood for instance, is much older. I have to agree that this is not related with the topic.

Dear Sir, Between 1992-2007, but more specifically between 2004-2007, I spent a great amount of time and money on Taoism, I even actually have attended two seminars of Mr. David Verdesi in 2006 & 2007 respectively. During all these years, I have seen many forms of Taoism but I have not seen a common, accepted definition of Taoism. And of course, I am well aware of Chinese origins of Taoism, in fact I have not written anything against it. I do not like the term "Hebrew" God. If you want to refer God as in all three Abrahamic religions, may I suggest to use the term as "God" only?

Dear Et-thoughts, Try to write such as: 1-Introduction 2-Development 3- Result This may help

Dear Et-thoughts, Your sentences still do not make any sense at all, your words resemble a jelly fish, one tries to hold it, but slips away.

I could not understand Sir.

Dear Et-thoughts, As I said before, your words do not make any sense to me, I can not reply. Sorry.