Taoist81

[Read the following with oozingly copious sarcasm] Of course, you are right. You know it is sooo easy to fake a heart attack.... Really, it was a conspiracy by the CIA and the "man" on the grassy knoll also helped fake the moon landing. He further supplied "Darwinists" with fake evidence to falsly disprove the "real science" of Intelligent Design. If it weren't for the Discovery Institute and the makers of Loose Change (both of whom use the exact same "logic" to "prove" their points) he might have gotten away with that and the "bombing" of the Pentagon.... And while we are at it, it wasn't really a racist redneck who killed Martin Luther King Jr. That was a plot by the roswell greys because they didn't like his dream since aliens weren't mentioned. [End copious sarcasm] In truth, for many now it is hard to imagine a time when the office of President was actually noble to American citizens. We, again, find it hard to understand a guy being so wound up over the assassination of his leader that he would kill for it.

Sorry for the delayed reply. If you look at the links posted earlier to research on the claims of conspiracy theorists (Popular Mechanics, Skeptics Magazine etc) the same old accusations are made in the film. The writers of those articles are much better writers than yours truly so it would probably be best to read that rather than a rehash of all of the varied points. You may also be able to find the Bullshit! episode online that Penn & Teller did, it was quite concise and entertaining. Much of the conspiracy accusations come from comments made right after the events when emotions were high and impressions were clouded, not on physical evidence. The discussion on religion at the beginning makes some interesting links, also known as coincidences. Correlation does not imply causation. There are no "pure" religions out there now. Islam adopted elements of Judaism and Christianity. Christianity adopted elements of Islam and Paganism (and obviously Judaism). Taoism and Buddhism cross-pollinated with each other, shamanistic religions, Confucianism and Hinduism. Etc, etc, ad nauseum. Thus it is quite obvious that most of the neat links (like 12 disciples and 12 signs of the zodiac) are just that, neat, nothing more, nothing sinister. People want to believe in conspiracies for a few reasons. 1. it means they are privy to secret information that others don't realize and the world would be better if they did know, i.e. it means they are "special". This is the same thing that makes cults so powerful. 2. it is just so hard to accept that something so "small" or simple could cause such a devastating act. It is easier to believe that our vast government involved thousands of people (of whom none confessed anything or let a memo leak) to kill thousands, than it is to believe that 19 mostly Saudi hijackers killed 3000+ people within a couple of hours. Similarly, people had a hard time accepting that one weirdo (despite the fact that he was an experienced sharpshooter) could kill a president who inspired the country. It was easier to accept that the government or other mysterious "them" arranged for his death. A recent study suggested that Deja Vu is most likely connected to a misfiring of neurotransmitters. Basically a synapse fires twice in a row (a mistake) and as of the second firing you have a "familiar" sensation because, well, it is the "second" time you have experienced it. You can probably find the research by praying to the Google God.

This seems to fit in so many places: This morning there was a knock at my door. When I answered the door I found a well groomed, nicely dressed couple. The man spoke first: John: "Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary." Mary: "Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's ass with us." Me: "Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to kiss His ass?" John: "If you kiss Hank's ass, He'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, He'll kick the shit out of you." Me: "What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?" John: "Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do whatever He wants, and what He wants is to give you a million dollars, but He can't until you kiss His ass." Me: "That doesn't make any sense. Why..." Mary: "Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the ass?" Me: "Well maybe, if it's legit, but..." John: "Then come kiss Hank's ass with us." Me: "Do you kiss Hank's ass often?" Mary: "Oh yes, all the time..." Me: "And has He given you a million dollars?" John: "Well no. You don't actually get the money until you leave town." Me: "So why don't you just leave town now?" Mary: "You can't leave until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the money, and He kicks the shit out of you." Me: "Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's ass, left town, and got the million dollars?" John: "My mother kissed Hank's ass for years. She left town last year, and I'm sure she got the money." Me: "Haven't you talked to her since then?" John: "Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it." Me: "So what makes you think He'll actually give you the money if you've never talked to anyone who got the money?" Mary: "Well, He gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you'll get a raise, maybe you'll win a small lotto, maybe you'll just find a twenty-dollar bill on the street." Me: "What's that got to do with Hank?" John: "Hank has certain 'connections.'" Me: "I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game." John: "But it's a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass He'll kick the shit out of you." Me: "Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to Him, get the details straight from Him..." Mary: "No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank." Me: "Then how do you kiss His ass?" John: "Sometimes we just blow Him a kiss, and think of His ass. Other times we kiss Karl's ass, and he passes it on." Me: "Who's Karl?" Mary: "A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing Hank's ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times." Me: "And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss His ass, and that Hank would reward you?" John: "Oh no! Karl has a letter he got from Hank years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for yourself." From the Desk of Karl Kiss Hank's ass and He'll give you a million dollars when you leave town. Use alcohol in moderation. Kick the shit out of people who aren't like you. Eat right. Hank dictated this list Himself. The moon is made of green cheese. Everything Hank says is right. Wash your hands after going to the bathroom. Don't use alcohol. Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments. Kiss Hank's ass or He'll kick the shit out of you. Me: "This appears to be written on Karl's letterhead." Mary: "Hank didn't have any paper." Me: "I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting." John: "Of course, Hank dictated it." Me: "I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?" Mary: "Not now, but years ago He would talk to some people." Me: "I thought you said He was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the shit out of people just because they're different?" Mary: "It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right." Me: "How do you figure that?" Mary: "Item 7 says 'Everything Hank says is right.' That's good enough for me!" Me: "Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up." John: "No way! Item 5 says 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides, item 2 says 'Use alcohol in moderation,' Item 4 says 'Eat right,' and item 8 says 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.' Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true, too." Me: "But 9 says 'Don't use alcohol.' which doesn't quite go with item 2, and 6 says 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just plain wrong." John: "There's no contradiction between 9 and 2, 9 just clarifies 2. As far as 6 goes, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for sure." Me: "Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock..." Mary: "But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from out of space, so it could just as easily be green cheese." Me: "I'm not really an expert, but I think the theory that the Moon was somehow 'captured' by the Earth has been discounted*. Besides, not knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it cheese." John: "Ha! You just admitted that scientists make mistakes, but we know Hank is always right!" Me: "We do?" Mary: "Of course we do, Item 7 says so." Me: "You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular logic, no different than saying 'Hank's right because He says He's right.'" John: "Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank's way of thinking." Me: "But...oh, never mind. What's the deal with wieners?" Mary: She blushes. John: "Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It's Hank's way. Anything else is wrong." Me: "What if I don't have a bun?" John: "No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong." Me: "No relish? No Mustard?" Mary: She looks positively stricken. John: He's shouting. "There's no need for such language! Condiments of any kind are wrong!" Me: "So a big pile of sauerkraut with some wieners chopped up in it would be out of the question?" Mary: Sticks her fingers in her ears."I am not listening to this. La la la, la la, la la la." John: "That's disgusting. Only some sort of evil deviant would eat that..." Me: "It's good! I eat it all the time." Mary: She faints. John: He catches Mary. "Well, if I'd known you were one of those I wouldn't have wasted my time. When Hank kicks the shit out of you I'll be there, counting my money and laughing. I'll kiss Hank's ass for you, you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater." With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off.

The "not a law" argument usually settles around the amendment allowing income tax not being "properly ratified" however, numerous precedent setting court cases have firmly established the law since. If you really want to do something about this kind of stuff, check out www.fairtax.org and www.lp.org . Do something rather than watching well put together films with lots of bad information.

Zeitgeist has a whole load of hogwash in it as well. Logical fallacies left and right as well as manipulation and cherry picking of evidence. The beginning about religion has some interesting correlations, but no real evidence.

Only if you are using something like the finger-lock which can cause structural damage. Any urologist can explain to you that "blue balls" and other supposed syndromes associated with "not cumming" are throw backs from the 19th century when they didn't have the understanding of the reproductive system that we have now. There is no scientific reason that retention alone would be damaging. At most a urologist would just think you were silly for doing it. On the other hand there is scientific research that ejaculating is beneficial, however the studies did not include a research gourp of individuals that were sexually active while retaining, so it is possible that simply being sexually active with or without ejaculation is beneficial to the health. But, based on that study, you are quite wrong, simply not having sex resulted in higher rates of prostate cancer and other problems.

As to whether Chia's particular techniques are dangerous, there seems to be evidence (as seen on Trunk's site, and in the experience of former practitioners here) that they at least can be. However, semen retention in and of itself is NOT dangerous. Taoists were not the only ones to practice retention, though they may be the most well known to have done so in conjunction with particular visualization practices. Oneida, Neo-Gnostics and various Tantriks have and do practice retention without any of the problems noted by those with Healing Tao etc. experience. If semen is not spent (whether or not it is "aroused") it will eventually breakdown into its components and disseminate through the body in other ways. Completely naturally. Will retention by itself give you immortality? No. But it can be used to enhance ones relationship. Note however that psychological harm can arise from guilt or otherwise beating oneself up over it. Note: this is not to say that certain ailments will never arise. There is the noted syndrome of "Jing Stasis" in TCM. This can be linked to a number of things and could possibly arise from retention alone. However, to treat it does not require "cumming".

Actually, if you look at the psychology behind conspiracy theories (again, real science with real studies, not nut job speculation), the reason people tend to buy into them is because they have a hard time accepting that shit just happens sometimes. They figure that something as big as 911 or the Kennedy assassination can't have just been done by as petty little terrorist group (despite the fact that they did have our training behind them to use) or one little communist. But, of course, you are right, and we never landed on the moon either. Very well put Master Yoda.

No disagreement that the Patriot act and many other laws are greatly overreaching and abusive of power. However, just because they are taking advantage of (and abusing) the situation doesn't mean they did it. Yes there have been non-government looks at the evidence. Yes, the majority of the official story does stand. Most of what has likely been "covered up" are the beurocratic screw ups. http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/de...842.html?page=7 http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID...E1583414B7F0000 http://skepdic.com/refuge/bunk27.html Not to mention a wonderful episode of Bullshit! that Penn and Teller did on conspiracies in general (including the 9/11 ones) where they interviewed numerous experts. They even introduced the show with the statement that the goverment CAN'T be trusted. So, they went to experts in the applicable fields. The conspiracy nuts do the exact same thing that Intelligent Design nuts do. They go for quote mining and argue using numerous fallacies. The "coincidences" aren't as numerous or as "coincidental" as most of these guys make them out to be. Once you have actually looked at all the evidence you realize that the "truth" is much less complicated than they wish it was. Edit: By the way. Here is what really happened:

Yep, power corrupts. But in this day and age, you kinda have to have some type of gov. Hence, registration as a Libertarian...small government all the way.

[edited and snipped: You actually have valid points here. After 911 the neocon "Bushites" took full advantage and expanded executive power far beyond the reaches that the founders of the US ever wanted to go near. There is rampant abuse of power and manipulation of language and emotions. The simple titling of a bill the "Patriot Act" makes it seem "unpatriotic" to vote against it. The "Terrorist Surveillance Bill", or as one Bum's avatar used to note the "Not eavesdropping, Freedom-listening" bill, makes it seem "pro-terror" to protect civil liberties. All these...very good points. But then you throw in this nonsense: See, this is where you get into the nuttiness that makes real progress damn-near impossible, because "the masses" confuse those who want real change with the conspiracy nuts that think that 9/11 was all planned with Bush (with Blair in his lap like a puppy), Chaney and Osama while they were sitting on the Grassy Knoll with Elvis, a Grey and a Reptilian. Non-government groups have thoroughly examined the evidence. Point by point the "the government did it" hypothesis has fallen in the dust of real investigation and science. Did the administration f#!k up? Sure. Were there things they could have done to prevent the disaster? Sure. Did they fly a missile into the pentagon and plant explosives in the Twin Towers? No. Not based on any real world evidence.

That is not a bad idea, so long as the person learning chinese remembers to specifically study Classical Chinese, since most modern chinese readers have a very hard time reading the classics.

Crowley got himself on and off heroin quite a few times with extensive records of the withdrawal and results. He claimed that going back on was voluntary and mainly for medical and personal research purposes, who knows though. The heroin was, initially at least, being administered by his Dr. due to his lifelong asthma.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....Carry out...HA...religious freedom..ha..ha,..... It actually would be funny if it weren't so sad how opposed to freedom, especially of religion, the "People's" "Republic" of China is....

Just as Tumo said, the Spiritual Exercises of Saint Ignatius of Loyola. He was the founder of the Jesuit order and as such his Exercises are introductory and ongoing practices. Laypeople may also practice them. You are right though that the Jesuits are known for their pursuit of knowledge. They are still spiritual priests though. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritual_Exe...atius_of_Loyola

Crowley saw both mysticism and magick as useful persuits and as essentially two routes to the same thing. He described mysticism (yoga, taoist techniques, jesuit meditations) as going ever inward to reach "mastery" and magick as going ever outward to do the same. Because infinity is infinity in either direction, the end result is the same. As another poster on another thread pointed out, most "mystic" traditions are essentially the same once you reach their pinnacles.

All of the Chinese professors at our (acupuncture) school were wishing everyone Happy New year yesterday.

Check out: http://www.three-treasures.com/newsletters/autumn05.html From the newsletter: "Although it may seem strange to talk of "stasis" of Jing, it does occur in men and it is basically men's equivalent of Stasis of Blood in the Uterus in women. The clinical manifestations of stasis of Jing are: stabbing pain lumbar region, pain in perineum, hypogastric pain, pain in testis and/or penis, impotence, premature ejaculation, priapism, prostatic hypertrophy, premature greying of hair, itching or pain pubic region, abnormal sperm, Peyronie's disease, Purple tongue, Choppy or Firm pulse." He also gives herbal treatments and a recommendation of acupoints. Stasis of Jing is partway down the page.

Disclaimer: The following post is not meant to imply that David (whom the poster does NOT know personally or professionally) is anything other than what he and his students claim. It is only to point out a fact that should always be kept in mind... It would make perfect sense to charge for the forum if profit were the goal. Every cult that has existed has demanded some sort of monetary donation, if not a donation of most/all of one's possessions. This sacrifice (often of amounts that increase as one becomes more immersed) adds to the indoctrination because the person remembers how much they gave up and thereby alter their beliefs to see it as something valuable. After all, for them to have given up so much it must have been worth it. Another common method of mind control is controlling of sexual impulses. If a persons sexual behavior is dictated (be it the chastity of Mormonism, the avoidance of "perversions" of Scientology, etc.) then again, a subconscious plant is made that if the person/group is able to dictate one's sexuality they must be worthy of listening to. This is one reason that skepticism is so important in the modern world.

Be wary of Proc's advise. He may or may not have legitimate information, who knows his tradition. But, for most humans, masturbation is not a "dirty" or "childish" habit. It is natural. The Tao doesn't share Proc's aversion to it, even animals do it. You should probably check out Trunk's site though, perhaps someone else could provide the link. Or you could just find one of Trunk's posts, the link is in his signature.

There is a good point there winpro. One does not have to understand everything about something to know it works. This really gets back to the original posters question "Is Qi "real"". Well, no one really knows, but most of us here do know that by applying certain practices certain results occur. A sensation in the meridians, an unexplainable extra force in a punce or palm, whatever. Is it the mind manifesting some near perfectly aligned or working system or is it some otherwise undetectable energy? Does it matter? If it works, work on it. Just like the placebo effect. People talk about it like it is a bad thing, but is it not amazing, pure proof that the body can and does heal itself soley because it thinks it is being healed. Is that qi? Maybe, maybe not. Labels and names tend to get in the way. Personal experience works for the individual. But it is not proof of anything beyond that particular individual.

Where exactly is everyone seeing "disrespect" or even "disbelief" in "qi"? Everything seemed to be a debate and question about the "nature" of qi. In other words, is qi an energy in the way it was described in the ancient texts, or is it an interpretation by the mind of a mind-body mechanism. Since qi can only be detected by living creatures and, unlike every other known form energy, cannot be detected by any machines that we have thus far invented (all of the acupoint finders test not for qi but for electrical conductivity) it cannot be proven either way. As another poster said above, it has nothing to do with racism, or "cultural colonialism" (which by the way, EVERY culture, including China, is guilty of), but a questioning of our understanding of things. If the best way for us to understand the world around us was to just trust what "the ancient people" or "the Chinese people" (how racist is that, only Chinese people could possibly be right), or whatever, then perhaps we should go back to thinking that lightening comes from Zeus, after all, the ancient Greeks believed that, and they are ancient, they must have had it right because ours is a "degenerate" modern society. Or perhaps the Chinese buddhists should give up their faith, beliefs and practices, because they are not indigenous to China. While they are at it they might as well stop using any technology that has come to them by way of the west, and the west had best give up all our spicy dishes whose spices originated in china. The cultures around the world have always and will always take pieces from each other and then blend them and merge them with their own creating something new. It is not just the "evil, capitalist, colonialist west" that does it, or has done it. Honestly, it is sad that people feel such self loathing just because they aren't from a particular part of the world, and that people are so hateful just over the continuing evolution of our view and understanding of the world and universe around us. A healthy dose of skepticism is...well, healthy. Otherwise progress (right, another dirty word) is not possible. New acupoints have been discovered and new techniques using them have come along. This all from deviating from the "ancients" techniques. There it is, it was probably a waste of time to even type this, but all the berating of questions, and the praising of ignorance was just too much to ignore...

...Uh, yeah, there are plenty of studies and lots of research on the methods not on the "how" or on the nature of qi. In some of the posts about Darren Brown there was mention of transmissions, but when discussing healing it has stuck to qi. Which again, has not be proven to exist in any research that this practitioner has seen. That doesn't mean it (the research) doesn't exist. The only reason Chiro was brought up was to point out that some treatment methods began as methods that were thought to use some mysterious energy, and are now understood to be simply manipulating normal physiological functions. Chiropracters (no offence to any here) tend to dilute the field when they try to do acupuncture without proper training. Again, there is certainly plenty of research on the efficacy of acupuncture, it wouldn't be this posters chosen field if it were not rather well established. The research on the nature of what we call qi is, on the other hand, lacking.

You seem to be confusing posters. Where was the post that "equated" trasmission with qi? Certainly they can be seen as related phenomena, but then so is a pentacostal "anointing", psychologically. What are not "equal" are the "existence" of qi and the efficacy of treatment methods that claim to use qi. Until recently Chiropractic claimed that its methods were based on a "energy force". Now, it is just bone adjustments. Laziness implies that there won't be a follow-up on your articles when work is done (posting is easy enough to do between responsibilities here). Who knows, coinicidence may have it that some of the studies you cite may help out with the research paper that is in process. Considering what is understandable though (again with a rudimentary knowledge of languages) it is not likely.

Almost all (if not all) psychics can be demonstrated to be doing nothing more than cold reading in the vast majority of their readings. This is often without any real training, just a natural talent for it that they then reinterpret as a psychic gift. They fully believe that they are psychic because their intiuition is so spot on. Taking that into account, most "masters" spend a great deal of time under their masters, who give them transmission going back to some unspecified person. It is often claimed that these lines go back to some deity or prophet or Buddha, but there is seldom anything other than anecdotal evidence linking it back so far. However, imagine for a moment, that someone in a not so distant past stumbled on a natural talent for a proto-NLP. Just like guys who are naturally good at pick up vs. guys who have to learn it, this individual would have had great success with his disciples. They would have over time learned to mimic his statements, movements even his subtle nigh undetectable ticks. This would have been passed down with mystical underpinnings and all those who participated would believe it fully. Afterall, they felt it, then they were able to do it. This is, of course, nothing more than a hypothesis. No evidence either way. But it is worth thinking about. Meditating on even. It would explain why these types of things either closely relate to physiological functions (even if they are not yet fully understood) or fall apart entirely when placed in a controlled setting.