Taoist81

There was never any disagreement that the vast majority of references to "lingam" have nothing to do with the penis. And no, those practicing puja are not adoring a "giant penis". But the fact remains that the word has in some cases been used in India to refer to it (as evidenced by the kama sutra's use of the word in that way). As for the mistakes (or possibly intentional misleading) in early Western "scholarship", there is no disagreement there either. These types of mistakes occured in many of the "interpretations" that early research attempted (Egyptian religion, Islam, Taoism etc.). As for Wendy's translation or scholarship, again, no argument. Her merit has no bearing on the words the author of the text used, though.

No disagreement on the "runging" of the Kama Sutra, it is certainly no where near the Vedas. The only point was whether or not "lingam" had in fact been used in antiquity as a word for the male organ, albeit infrequently. The link was not chosen for its translation, but for its discussion of which Sanskrit words were used in the text itself (both the use and the infrequency of "lingam"). There is no question that the usual meaning is "Sign, mark etc." but the fact remains that those who say it "never" means penis are ignoring part of the (Indian, not just English) history of the term.

http://books.google.com/books?id=wAAiY4J5-...6&ct=result

Maybe someone should have told the author of the Kama Sutra that Lingam and Yoni have no anatomical meanings. Really, as is usually the case, both sides of this debate are guilty of ignoring the other sides evidence. Lingam has in the past been used both ways, and in modern jargon has the meaning used here as common.

Those nervous breakdowns also came after those individuals went against his recommendations (for example when C.S. Jones took the "Oath of the Abyss" before moving beyond Neophyte against the tradition/rules of the A.'.A.'.), the death of Raoul Loveday came after Raoul drank from a spring that Crowley warned him was contaminated. Ione was Neuberg's mistress, not Crowley's, and the madness that Rose experienced (aside from being arguably predicted in 1904) was due to her alcoholism before Crowley had most of his more exalted mystic attainments. Admittedly he did drive friends away often (as in the case of his falling out with Regardie), but he also assisted those, like Frank Bennett, in trudging forward in their spiritual development. It seems his personality was hard to stand, but his "wisdom" and attainment often made it worth it to those who knew him.

For some of us Crowley's work has been the most helpful of all of the systems we have come across. In Western traditions even those who despised Crowley as a person (like Israel Regardie for example) respected the depth of his knowledge and spiritual "power". For someone wishing to get the most out of the Western Tradition, his work ranks near the top, and the A.'.A.'. is among the few existing orders with real practical training under teachers who have been actually tested in their abilities (not just their memorization), possibly the only one. This expresses the point of Magick very well. Anyone who really works on the Great Work finds this to be true. Which fruits are you basing that judgment on?

Your terms are off a bit here. "Chaos Magick" is simply magick performed within the Chaos Magick "system", if you can call something as disjointed as Chaos Magick a system. Most westerner magick practitioners differentiate between white and black magick depending on how the magick is used. Aleister Crowley defined magick as "Causing change to occur in conformity to Will", with Will being a divine or True Will, not just whatever one wants at the moment. He also claimed that the union with ones Holy Guardian Angel or Higher Self was the one true goal of all magick, and that any magick performed without this as its goal was "Black Magick". So, while the want for power may draw some into the study of the occult, one cannot (as you and Mak point out) get very far without higher goals in mind.

There isn't a "line" where one ends and the other begins. Like all religions, they have a tendancy to morph and shape each other. Kinda like Jesus being seen as a Buddha and the Christian adoption of prayer ropes or rosaries (malas). Despite what some people try to claim there is no "one true Taoism" or Buddhism or any of the others. All of them have the tint of the religions and spiritual traditions they interacted with and/or took converts from.

Then you must love the poverty and starvation these "people" have caused those unfortunate enough to have a parent who was told they should give their kids lunch money to the rolex wearing preacher to buy a new yacht instead of their children for food. It is great to encourage charity, but stupidity is a different story. There will be a few success stories in any group, but before "loving" this garbage, one should look into the harm it causes. Jesus, who most of these people claim to follow, told his disciples to give their money to the poor, not to himself. Same with Muhammad, Guru Nanak etc.

If no one near you has a personal recommend you can search for a licensed practitioner here: http://www.nccaom.org/find/index.html

These types of statements are one of the main reasons that those of us who practice complementary medicine, like TCM, sensibliy are still lumped in with real, dangerous quacks. There is no question of "what cancer is". For a simple reading of it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer There are clear reasons that surgery and chemo are the best options for the majority of cases. Are there some remissions? Yes, but they are not the majority. This one sounded like it was going to be a good answer, but still fell short. There is immune response in play in various types of cancers, but cancer is a mutation that is replicated. While the diversity of types of cancer make this a simplistic discription, it is not as simplistic as "caused by the immune system" which is simply not true. Until "wholisticly thinking people" get over the conspiracy type fear of legitamate science and medicine and start recognizing that healthy living and natural medicine have their place just as biomedicine has its place and is necessary in many cases, there is going to be little progress in truly integrating the best of both worlds of medicine....

This is a mistaken claim initially made by those who refused to go up for the challenge but didn't want to look scared. All of the correspondances between the Randi foundation and the individuals applying for the challenge are published unedited on Randi's website. They allow a great deal of modification in the type of test and will allow ANY style of test as long as it is in a controllable environment and not dangerous (like the way they will not test Breatharian claims because they don't want to be responsible for the death of a person who goes without food or water for extended periods of time). The applicants must agree to the method of testing beforehand and so far all those who have tried it have failed. It wasn't that Randi or his testers "explained it scientifically", it was simply that in most cases they couldn't do anything that they claimed. Please note: this is coming from someone who both respects scepticism and those aspects of the human experience that defy rational experience. The question of the matter is the claims being made. If someone claims they can bend spoons with their mind and then fail to do so when they are using spoons that they have not tampered with beforehand their claim falls on its face. On the otherhand, most of us have had experiences with chi or gods or "devils" that have been important moments in each of our lives and that are not affected by their objective "reality" or lack thereof. The experiences stand on their own regardless of scientific explaination.

One example of a definite non-celibate who supposedly glowed, floated and bilocated (if you believe such things) during trance, meditation or projection was Aleister Crowley, the "sex fiend beast" himself. A more famous example of a married "levitator" (supposedly by divine power) was Muhammad's Night Journey. Later examples are found in various reports of Sufi stories similar to the alleged flying monks and nuns during trance. Stories of Sikh gurus don't tend to be associated with floating, but that should not discount their transcendance. The thing is, again, people tend to think you have to avoid sex to transcend it. However, if one sees the Divine through sex one can likewise transcend it, albeit in a different way. There are thousands (at least) of meditating monks and nuns, and the stories of floating and or glowing are still rare. If you would like more specific references to the "miracles" (all of which, including the celibates, could have been simple legends) one can search through the massive amounts of mystic traditions throughout the world. Remember also, that celibacy is a relatively new requirement for "spiritual strength".

This is a statement that neglects the mystics of Sufi, Sikh and the myriad Protestant and occult traditions that have had reports of the same types of phenomenon while living the "householder lifestyle" with wife or wives and children. Mysticism and related elements have evolved around the world in diverse ways because each person while being an element of unity is also unique. For some avoiding sex and sexuality is natural for others it is abbhorant. The reducing of the infinite to one then none is what the path must be, the details vary.

There are a lot of things that you will get mixed responses from acupuncturists about. We usually advise against heavy exercise after treatment because the idea with acupunture is the needles are used to direct your Qi in a specific way. When you exercise your Qi is either scattered or directed toward whatever limbs or muscles you are working with the exercise. That said, some patients at our clinic do fine exercising (moderately) before or after treatment. Others (especially deficient patients) feel exhausted if they exercise on the day of a treatment (before or after). It doesn't seem to "negate" the treatment, but it does seem to be more draining on the patient. According to some of our instructors it does lessen the effect of the treatment.

In the A.'.A.'. the task of the Neophyte is to gain "complete mastery of the Astral Plane" (a bit of hyperbole to drive home a point for the Neophyte). This is because for any occult work the astral is involved. In meditations one must be able to block off oneself from the astral, and in "magick" the entities one works with interact with the magician, for the most part, through the astral. Of course this is preliminary, Crowley (one of the founders of the Order) pointed out that eventually one ceases travelling on the astral in one's Body of Light (which must be built and fortified through various practices) but rather, just opens one's astral eyes to the plane without seperating the bodies. Those who practice astral travel as a goal on its own (like the Bruce or Monroe styles) must have their own reasons..?..

It should be noted that most bottled water comes from municipal sources (i.e. is not really different from tap water) and what doesn't is completely unregulated. Yummy things like arsenic has been found in that "pure" bottled water. The good thing about tap water is that they are at least restricted on how clean the water has to be based on the most widely proven science and it is constantly being checked by a variety of sources. (note: admittedly flouride is certainly not necessary as it once was, but it is also not as deadly as "anti-flouridists" make it out to be.)

Whatever "enemies" may be celebrating, at least we might (big might, history shows Dems just as easily get into wars or conflicts as Republicans) avoid making as many new ones. Intimidation and thereby fear creates as many enemies as it drives away friends. Check out The Power of Nightmares: The Rise of the Politics of Fear for a great disection of this in recent history. A third party candidate. Only they can actually address the issues the two major parties have to dance around them.

Has anyone else studied this? Our school used to teach the 8 brocades as our standard qigong for class, but for the past year or so they changed teachers and he switched to this set. The thing is, it seems that only one other site lists this as a set that they teach. Have any of you studied this or even heard of it?

Self topping in hopes that someone may have a comment on this...

The first thing you need to do is go see an acupuncturist. Your description sounds like you may have a Yang Deficiency with some Liver heat or Liver Qi Stagnation (the Kidneys and Liver are quite closely related). However, your pulse and tongue need to be factored in also, as does your age, "constitution" and your existing diet. If you simply google "Food Therapy" "Chinese" and "Yang Deficiency" you should get tons of results, but again, you cannot get a really accurate TCM diagnosis over the net, even the sound of your voice factors in. Good luck.

Not to say anything one way or the other about the historicity of Jesus, the quotes from Josephus are questionable at best. They for the most part read like insertions. Furthermore, the one quote that is most likely to be authentic, simply notes that James' brother was crucified. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus Again, not to say there wasn't a real Jesus, just that Josephus doesn't make a good argument for it. Chances are he was a Jewish revolutionary, or maybe the Mandaeans are right? : ) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandaean

If you haven't seen it you should check out the BBC's The Power of Nightmares. It follows the very creepy parallels between the rise of Neoconservatives and Islamism. The reason this relates to your comment above is that they go into the Strausian idea of the "Noble Lie" specifically, the neoconservative push for their brand of Christianity.

I think the quote is from someone who is affraid of science's abuse for evil/selfish ends. The same technology that creates nuclear power can be used to create weapons of mass destruction. Likewise, the internet can be used for nefarious purposes such as datamining, and governmentspying on the populace You can find many masonic sources for Duke Ferdinand of Brunswick and the 1782 Congress of Wilhelmsbad. Here's one from Mackey's Encyclopedia of Freemasonry which mentions that Baron von Knigge was present at the congress representing the Illuminatti by the way. I don't mention Pike much because I am not objecting to Freemasonry from a Judeo-Christian perspective. In fact I am not so sure I even disagree with THE Pike quote that fundamentalist and masonic apologists toss around so often. Again, I have a copy of Morals and Dogma, but only read maybe 1/4. It is a massive book and would require time than I have been able to commit. If I said Grand Exhalted Worshipful Elect Poobah of the Illuminatti would that make you feel better? It's a general term. The same way Sam Palmisano could be announced as the head of IBM when his technical title would be Chief Executive Officer. You can google the technical Illuminati grades and titles if you are so inclined. I am not sure what your point is. On the contrary, there is much evidence to suggest that the Illuminatti went underground, and many of its members were "absorbed" into Freemasonry. Other than that. I agree with most of what you say about the current state of Freemasonry. For the record have you read Proofs of a Conspiracy? Brgds! As noted above, this thread is supposed to be about Rosicrucians, and while the Masons and the supposed Illuminati did interweave with Rosicrucian myth, this seems to be detracting from the topic. We do seem to agree that modern masonry, whether or not it was ever a tool for the "Illuminati", is benign. Also, to answer your question, no, you don't need to experience the rituals. Actually at this point with most (Grand Lodge of England) regular lodges you would probably not learn much of anything from the Lodges themselves. That said, reading initiation rituals is nothing like experiencing them. We will likely disagree all day long about whether the Illuminati died out as a small group, or is now in charge of the Council on Foreign Relations, so let's just leave it at that. We have both obviously done our studying and just reached different conclusions. By the way, there is lots of cool stuff in D&M, so when you have time you should flip through it more. Some is bland, some is interesting.

None of this was meant as any kind of attack. As noted above: The whole question was "what was so great about Jesus" if you don't believe in the necessity of the crucifixion. Without the miracles Jesus was just another teacher, a good on sure, but not inherently special. The only way to make him special is to make him a sacrifice or to apply mystic understanding to the whole story (not a bad thing, actually quite useful). It is interesting that any questioning of Jesus whatsoever is taken as "beating him up". Or if they question any of it they have "a problem". This whole conversation has been: "okay, since we aren't christians debating theology, lets say the miracle stuff was just fluff. What else was 'great' about Jesus." Great as in more significant than any of the other people who taught the same things that he did. Jesus didn't teach much about hell, his followers did. So that wasn't really meant to apply to Jesus, it is actually a good thing about what he taught, i.e. just love each other and you won't need any fear or commandments to make you behave. The discussion of karma and the finite or infinite nature of "eternal punishment" also doesn't factor in, because we are talking about Jesus' teachings minus the miracles, resurrection etc. Who cares...Yes, it seems that is where it should be left. This whole thing was meant to be a pretty simple question, but people do seem to get offended when Jesus is questioned. Jesus, Buddha and all the rest...Good teachers, repeating the same thing that good teachers always have... Peace and Love ,Brothers.