Taoist81

Fear unchecked freezes you and does no good. Just keep a basic survival kit and a camping type cooker. Things might get pretty bad for a while (especially now that the bailout has been passed) but without more terrorist attacks martial law will not likely be declared. (You haven't been listening to Glenn Beck too much have you?) Also, re: specifying this to America, European and Asian countries are closer to complete government control at this point than the US is. Iceland announced today that they have nationalized most if not all of their banks, the UK is close behind, and the Euro has the Eurozone in a position that if one falls, they all do, yet they are still fighting about who is doing what. Anyway, again, just keep yourself prepared. A good survival kit and cooker is useful even if nothing happens (which is really the most likely outcome), and this is coming from someone who slept through Ike a few weeks ago. Might want to at least get a shotgun too, just in case : )

Muslims tend to get off with some circles, but less people are worried about it now. Bill says he believes in some type of God but not one that writes books ("God does not write books. He can make rainbows...."). The reason it is mostly Christians that are pissed is because they are the ones that speak the loudest in the US. He has frequently spoken out against Muslim Extremism on his shows. Oh, also, one good site re: Muslim extremism is : http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ (warning some may be disturbed by some images/articles)

You are misinformed. Bill is a equal opportunity basher. Everyone from Jews for Jesus to Rael to Satanists are included in this movie's premise. As for why "no other religion gets bashed", you must live here in America. The main reason that Christianity gets bashed louder (though not really more often except proportionally) is because it is the only religion here with enough arrogance and power (here's a scary example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family_(C...l_organization) ) to interfere with non-believers lives (ex. the current Prop 8 in CA). Muslims get bashed just as much when they demand Shari'a or when they preach (un)Intelligent Design. You don't tend to hear about the Quakers getting "bashed" because they stay the f%#k out of other people's business and don't try to drag science back to the dark ages. Oh, and they don't try to limit women's reproductive rights, gay inheritance right/hospital visits to committed partners etc., people's rights to put diverse substances into their bodies....do we need to go on? Lastly, before Christians complain about being "bashed" (just being made fun of) they should take into account all the bashing they have done: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_antisemitism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_crusades http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_trials http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galilao http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Inquisition ....the list goes on. And doesn't even include how far back the church set science after the fall of Rome.

Two things. First, it should be "unless you have been studying", you may not know how annoying it is to have "observation students" try to correct your point location or diagnosis because they have taken the "intro" courses more recently and the "actual" diagnosis doesn't match since there are much deeper layers. Second, many people who seek treatment would need to avoid Gensing (Ren Shen) because it is too hot. Western herbs are "applied" in a very different way than eastern.

You really shouldn't start an herbal regimen without consulting a TCM practictioner. We have had to tell patients many times to stop whatever herbs they thought they needed so the herbs they actually needed could be put to use.

It depends on what you are using it for. Ren Shen (chinese) is a powerful Qi tonifying herb. Xi Yang Shen (american) is a stronger Yin tonifier. Both tonify Qi, both benefit fluids but each has it's strength.

Hmmm. Maybe there is some truth to this. All of the high priced gurus might have hit on the truth in reality. According to this: http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/extract/299/9/1016 fake medicine works better if it is expensive...

The comment wasn't meant as a jab, it just needed to be said. As for paying what something is worth, sure, that is true. However, if you are an "enlightenend being" trying to lift you fellow entities out of samsara, it seems that one would wish to make it so that the poor hard working farmers (who by definition work harder and are likely more humble than a rich business owner) would have access to ones teachings as simply and easily as a rich guy who can simply afford it. Buddha may have given up a lot, but only his statues and later priests got rich from his teachings. How much do you think Buddha charged the crowd when he held up the lotus? Also, a note on Egyptian practices, if memory serves, very few people in Egyptian society actually possessed a BotD, it was a priestly "tool" and instruction for the people, but more importantly for the pharoh. People who could afford sarcophagi were often buried with a piece of the Book of Breathings, but it was more important to ensure that your heart was light enough so it wouldn't outweigh the feather of Maat.

Just for the record, not all of us will pay $300 for a phone or ipod : )

Actually, as far as the teachings go, the people in the FreeZone (people who use Scientology "Tech" without the church hierarchy) seem to get a lot out of them. It isn't as if L Ron had no training, he did spend time with the OTO and claimed to have spent time with other spiritual teachers. There is even a document (that the FreeZone cites as their precedent) where he claimed that he was trying to keep the teachings available cheap/free (though this was likely just as much a scam as anything else). Bottome line is the people have experiences using Scientology methods, if you look at their higher teachings lots of similar effects are claimed as you hear "masters" of many lines claim. Ex. Tom Cruise's claim that he hasn't been sick, not even a cold, for as long as he can remember since "attaining" the higher OT levels. One of the OT "powers" is supposedly control over MEST (matter, energy, space and time) giving freedom from sickness. Others include communing with "thetans" attached to ones body, spiritually travelling, stopping negative energy attacks from others etc. Who is to say that their expensive training is any more of a scam than a less popular expensive training if the higher up students make equivalent claims (slight sarcasm here, everyone here should know how "evil" the CoS is, if not check out Xenu.net). This is one good reason that some spiritual teachers have sworn off accepting money for teaching, that way, anyone from the poorest to the richest can learn if they work, if they do the work, they are worthy and the teacher can't be accused of scamming the students.

Well then, maybe L Ron had it right, if payment is needed to "open the spirit world": http://www.xenu.net/archive/prices.html Of course, one must wonder, if payment is "required" how did the first human pay, and who?

Understandably so, if something is worth earning, then it should be earned. The stories of Lu Dong Bin point that out well. However, excluding those who would be worthy and remaining absolutely silent allows for the breeding of imposters with nothing but a pissing contest to distinguish the valid from the invalid. Any "master" with a little charisma can go out and claim to be initiated into a secret lineage in the mountains and teach for cash. Add in a little charletanism, cold reading and good genes for aging and you have an "immortal". On the other hand, if lineages taught basics openly and then allowed those who were worthy to go on then you would have a standard to judge by. Since that died out with the "People's" Republic the strength of secrecy is now highly damaged. As far as secrets go, in Western Traditions often the instructions are published openly but much of it is only useful with initiation and/or personal instruction.

Procurator, (First off, please note, this is coming from someone who once considered himself a Taoist, but now, seeing what "taoism" "is" tends to be leery of the label in favor of more "open" none labels while seeing the "philosophy of the Tao" as for all intents and purposes supreme, only using the term "taoist" with necessary qualifiers.) While you make valid points about things being "much worse", your "solution" is really what caused the problem. The fact that "real Taoist Masters" keep their teachings secret has made it possible for these charlatans to pedal their wares to a public who has no idea what to expect other than fantastical stories of magical Masters in the mountains. Openness breeds understanding. If Taoist teachers had not been so paranoid of "round-eyed devils" in the first place then Taoism may have been exported (as all religions hope for their "solution to life's problems" to be) in a more pure form. Instead, the texts that were available were translated with relatively little "traditional input" (excepting certain legends of Wilhelm's secret master) and interpreted in western minds by western minds. In the utilization of secrecy they did not "protect" the masses, nor did they produce more "masters", they simply created a breeding ground for those who would use the vacuum to make a profit (just as happens with any religion). edit: to clarify, with lessened secrecy, those seeking instruction could know ahead of time what they would expect to learn as well as the history (with documentation) of who they were to learn from.

Did you look at the SciAm link? It addresses most of this... This is another common misunderstanding, the theory of evolution does not address abiogenesis, only how speciation occurs. However, there have been studies that reproduced the conditions that we know early Earth had and, surprise, surprise, amino acids (the building blocks of life) began to form. Despite Lee Strobel's (another example of a lying IDer) claims to the contrary these results have been reproduced many times. Answers in Genesis and their "Creation Museum" are a joke, but even they admit that this is not a valid argument against Evolution. Again it must be asked if you looked at the links? There have been numerous observations in the lab of evolution. Anecdotal evidence is thrown out in decent studies. If you are calling fossils or other records of the past anecdotal then you are simply mistaken. One doesn't need to go back in time to test or observe evolution. Mineral deposits etc. record conditions of early Earth, but again, Evolution is not Abiogenesis. And again, did you look at the links, it has been demonstrated that mutations can produce new traits, new information. For example the bacteria that evolved to digest nylon. They developed the trait then passed it on. The list goes on. Agreed, ping pong link posting is not necessary. You don't seem to have looked at the ones above and the AiG site, despite being thoroughly unreliable for science (they base their information on a Bronze Age Myth, not current research), they disagree with many of your arguments one the link you posted, including the "no new genetic information" belief, because science has provided concrete proof. While you are not conversing with a biologist, you are conversing with someone who has studied biology both in college and out. It comes down to evidence, not belief. Now that is funny. It would be quite amusing to see "Flying Pterodactyl Qigong" or the "Plesiosaur Water Method Meditation".

Wudang, Condolences for your experience with fundies, it seems many of us here have experienced them on some level. Before your questions, it must be noted that "the internet having developed from trees" and especially "men having developed from monkeys" displays a fundamental misunderstanding of the theory of evolution. Men did not "come from monkeys", "the theory" (quotes because the Theory includes so many disciplines, from genetics to geology, now that calling it one thing is a bit misleading) doesn't say that. Only that men descended from the same line. More like saying that the internet "evolved" from pong, though, to be completely honest you are falling back on the Fallacy of False Analogy because the internet was manufactured, it did not evolve per se. As for your questions, rather than attempting to elucidate the numerous studies that have gone into answering both of these questions this site offers a great synopsis: http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=15-ans...-to-creationist Another great synopsis: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html Speciation (as you put it "genomal" changes): http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html The really difficult thing is that Creationists recycle all of the old disproven stories and people take them as fact. There has yet to be a Creationist video or book put out that didn't use bad (and outdated) science and out right lies about science.

No wudang, the "Bible Man comment" was actually in reference to a radio preacher who calls himself the "Bible Answer Man". He and other creationists just happen to use the same disproven old arguments and outright lies that non-christian creationists tend to use (i.e. those that don't look at the actual proof of evolution, which is by now an observable FACT). How do you figure that evolution is incongruent with Taoism, especially with the passage quoted above from the TTC "Tao begat One, One begat Two, Two begat Three, Three begat the Ten Thousand Things". What better way to poetically describe Common Ancestry?

Well...sure it is the same in the end. But at least the Bible Answer Man tries to make his arguments sound good. He isn't just saying "because the bible says so" even though that is the premise he is starting from. He may use bad information, but...yeah, at least he puts some effort into it, not just claiming the universe is older than actual observations have proven it to be or just dismissing evolutionary fact because his group says so without at least trying to deceive people with (fake) evidence. Then again, on that note, maybe it is the Bible Creationists that are worse because they are more eloquent and have more power....

This is worse than the hogwash that the radio bible preachers push. At least they "try" to make it sound like there is a rational basis for their argument (despite the fact that not one (un)Intelligent Design (read: Creationism) book or other publication can be produced without numerous logical fallacies and outright lies (the whole "Thou shalt not bear false witness" thing apparently doesn't apply when defending a Bronze Age book of myths). If anyone takes a look at the actual evidence that modern science has compiled they cannot claim that evolution is not the most concise description of the facts (i.e. "Theory" just like gravitation and many others). Myths that are given in secret groups are not "facts", they are not evidence, they are not "Theories", they are stories, if the are developed with a little thought put into them they might qualify as an "Hypothesis", but if that is the case they need to be tested. This is how evolution has become a Theory, by testing both in the laboratory and in the fossil record not to mention the other fields that have helped to solidify our understanding of the mechanics of evolution. All species are "intermediate species". And we are primates so "apemen" is just like saying "human". We simply out ate our cousins, just as we are out eating every other species on the planet if we don't change our behavior.

In the Golden Dawn and thus Crowley's A.'.A.'. lines "journeying in the Spirit Vision", learning to "travel" in the Body of Light is one of the first things that one works on. As a Neophyte in the A.'.A.'. one's main objective is to "obtain complete control of the astral plane". One is tested on their abilities to do this by requiring the subject to, for example, go to a place in the astral already known to the testers and report what they learn, or to visit a particular symbol unknown to the Neophyte and report the meaning by what he finds there. In a few rituals of both the Golden Dawn and the A.'.A.'. they physical and astral bodies are used simultaneously (for example holding hands in one particular GD ritual), or in rapid succession (as in Liber Samekh). This version of astral travel while sharing some elements with the popular conception, is done specifically to develop the Body of Light so that ever higher realms may be visited and ever higher development may be achieved until one is able (and ready) to reach beyond the Abyss and achieve Oneness and then Noneness.

The distinction between "spiritual and esoteric" and "things" was/is not universal. Sexuality, drunkeness, dayjobs etc. can and have at times all be/been "spiritual things. Hathoor was at times a goddess of fertility, of lust alone, of the sun and diverse other things. She was combined with and separated from various other goddesses at various times. You know as well as anyone that sex is both spiritual and physical, not one or the other (this is likely why you feel so close to Hathoor in the first place). As for the Ankh, it was likely lots of things (a sandal strap, sexual organs etc.). Though its "esoteric" symbolism comes from the fact that the Egyptians used it as an amulet and symbol of power for their gods. Whether it began as an "instrument" of power that exalted the human spirit (which the Egyptians saw as having multiple parts including the physical body) through song, or a depiction of a union of "organs" that exalted the spirit through sexual bliss, the symbol has been handed down with deep and broad reaching meaning.

"Forcing" things into an "artificial" unity is not the goal, nor is it possible. By examining relationships, differences etc. one can see the "actual" unity. A "forced unity" will inevitably break down. Hence "work" on the Tree in Western Traditions. One learns the basics then explores them. Nothing is to be taken on faith, everything is to be tested and if it fails, it fails.

Almost all divisions are arbitrary. Truth is one, but the sages call it by many names. We seem to all be in agreement that the planet Venus is not actually in charge of Love, but it works as a representative of the "state" of Netzach or of any of the other attributions of Venus. The whole of the Tree of Life is nothing more than a useful way of looking at the universe. Most things (as Crowley notes in 777) do not easily fit into one specific category. An example is Isis, who can be the Universal Mother and thus a Sephirah, or a Fertility goddess representative of the element of Earth and thus a Path between two other Sephirah. Just as octaves are "arbitrary" (notably the Chinese system has 5 tones not 7 or 8), but are essential to learning to use a (western) musical instrument, likewise any of the various systems of attainment have their divisions that are representative of "-nesses" that are essential to attainment using that system. The 7 planets are represented in the Sephirah as well as some of the Paths on the Tree of Life, the Chakras, the Goddesses and Gods, even the permutations of the I Ching can be categorized by the Tree but that doesn't mean they are the Tree or that the Tree is them. The end point of all of it though is to see unity, but first one must understand the divisions and relationships. Solve et Coagula

Regardless of what you think of Crowley his compendium 777 (of which he was only one compiler of) is quite useful for questions of this sort. 777 based mostly on tradition lists Thoth with Musk, Mastle, White Sandal, Storax, Mace and Fugative Odours.

This has to be pointed out with the whole "just a theory" comment. This is the same thing that "IDers" claim about Evolution despite observable evidence. And it should be noted that mini black holes are "theoretical" and have never been observed (though mathematically they give off more than they take in and would dissipate rapidly). According to the United States National Academy of Sciences, "Some scientific explanations are so well established that no new evidence is likely to alter them. The explanation becomes a scientific theory. In everyday language a theory means a hunch or speculation. Not so in science. In science, the word theory refers to a comprehensive explanation of an important feature of nature that is supported by many facts gathered over time. Theories also allow scientists to make predictions about as yet unobserved phenomena." Hawking Radiation is not yet directly observable, but like lots of astrophysics, the math is available. It fits with other known laws and is constantly under the same rigorous testing as all real science is. All that aside, why has all of the media made such a hoopla about today? It isn't until Oct. that they are going to try an actual collision which is when the 1 in 50,000,000 chance of something going wrong would happen. Maybe urban violence, terrorism and other real threats to peoples lives aren't interesting enough.

Then, again, as noted above, you likely aren't walking around with a tub of lard hanging from your gut. "gorilla abs" are still abs. It doesn't sound like you have a beer gut. Most people, if they are in decent physical shape and lose the fat that most people carry around, they will have enough definition to their abs that it would count as a "six pack" (i.e. you could make out the individual sections of their rectus abdominis muscles). If you are fit and are carrying a load of lard then good for you, but you are in the bottom .0001% of the population that can do so. All that said, none of the above was meant or phrased as and attack at you or your physique. No one here can comment on the "wellness" of anyone without seeing them and examining them assuming said person had the training to do physical examination. Come on, Sumo wrestlers look like they are unhealthy tubs of fat, but few men could hold their own in a ring with them. All any of it was intended to point out was that most people (repeat MOST, not ALL) who have guts, have them because their diet and/or exercise routine is lacking. Most people if they have a decent diet and exercise regularly will see definition in their abdominals. Again, there is a difference between a person with a "qi belly" (supposedly at least) and a lard ass. The "qi belly" is likely the result of exercising mostly the internal abdominals while mostly neglecting the external (again, breath exercises can work both if the practitioner so chooses), whereas the lard ass is due to either reeeaaally bad genes or laziness and gluttony.