Neikung

Hi Ramus, just out of curiosity, have you ever seen DV sitting in full lotus? With the claim of his achievement, he should be able to sit for more than 30' in full lotus. Someone in this forum claimed that DV couldn't even sit half lotus for too long.

I have met DV and found him NOT credible. All the negative talks about him are there for good reasons.

Wow...thank you for sharing your experience. Let it be a warning to those who are still seeking DV despite all the telltale signs of something very fishy.

As for Verdesi's previous Sifu Jiang, I recently found another blog that complained about him. Here it is in Chinese: http://bbs.travel.163.com/bbs/jiangnan/136945213.html and its google English translation: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=e...i%26rls%3Den-us From this blog and the previous article in Taiwan's Apple Daily, Jiang certainly looks suspicious. He might have some power (or not?) but one thing is for sure: he loves $ and will do anything to get rich. As others have said, there are many charlatans who use qigong to earn their living.

Thunderson, What is David's proof that he has achieved level 4? Being able to electrocute another person is not a proof by itself since one can do that through magic tricks (tesla coils hidden in the shoes for example). Have you seen him attracting/pushing a box from a distance similar to what Jim did in the youtube video?

I don't think being expensive is the main argument although it did add to the absurdity. The main point for me (and I suspect many others) is that David has been caught lying in many many occasions.

I have noticed that too a while ago and thought wow, this guy really knows how to sell stuff...he somehow unifies all the disparate qigong disciplines into one "unified theory of everything". The Chinese character for "Mo" in Damo is of course different from "Mo" in Mopai. No one except David would call Shaolin as Damo pai or worse "Da mo pai". Amazing!! IF David really achieves so called Yin Yang Gong, why would anyone still need to study with Jiang or Liping. They could have learned everything from him!!

As discussed in this forum before, Zhai has been accused of fraud and Verdesi might not even have a doctorate degree. This video further heightened the suspicion. Stigweard described nicely all the telltale signs of a magician's act in this video. Best,

I have seen this guy before in a video sold by David Verdesi. He is a student of Sifu Zhai Jiang Feng (David Verdesi's sifu who lives in Huang Shan). In that video, he supposedly started fire with hays using the same method (with right hand hidden underneath, moving his left hand excessively etc).

Mmmm. This is interesting. Is David really Wang Li Ping's tudi as he claimed he is? How come he can't even communicate with Wangliping for such a simple thing?

For me, the most telling thing about David is the fact that he called himself Dr. Verdesi (for Ph.D.). When questioned in this forum earlier this year, his "title" suddenly disappeared from the various web sites, including his own. In this modern day of age, titles are not to be taken lightly and shouldn't be misused. Unless there is a very good explanation, this alone should serve as a big warning sign.

These points are not irrelevant because it speaks of the integrity of a person. If all you said about David &Sifu Chang had been true, I would then believe all the other things you (David) say about Sifu Jiang/Sifu Wang/Lei Shan Dao lineages/David's accomplishments etc. Believe it or not, I have actually met David before and if he has indeed achieved Lv4, I'd be the first one here to congratulate him with all my heart. I am not attacking David but just to get the facts out. I haven't said much before but feel like I need to speak out now as the exaggeration is getting worse. You can say whatever you like about David and Sifu Jiang/ Sifu Wang as I have no way of checking. However, you should stop branding David as a Mopai student, past or present. If he never practiced Mopai qigong, then he was never a student...just because he met Sifu Chang does not automatically mean that he is a student.

These people are simply pointing out your false advertisements/claims that David is somehow a world expert in Mopai and has a close relationship with Sifu Chang. In numerous occasions, you have made many claims that are simply not true (presumably because you got false information from David). For example, you have posted that: 1. Sifu Chang is going to China to help David with his neikung (but you have said yourself that Mopai is closed to all westerners starting 2002/2003...aren't these 2 statements contradictory already?) 2. David has L2 test (like Jim in this video) without the help of Sifu Chang...but David is, as you posted, a non-practicing student. Tongkosong was right when he said that David didn't even practice Lv1, let alone could move the boxes from far away by himself. 3. Sifu Chang would still welcome David into his house. In fact, I have heard that Sifu Chang was furious when he learned about David's tour business and wanted nothing to do with him anymore. On the other hands, you are commendable to point out that "..the idea of getting the techniques and actually succeeding without the help of John Chang is just wishful thinking....you will need the help of a qualified teacher." Some people in this forum have the naivete that they can learn neigong through the internet (free or not) or through a few minute phone calls. There is a very good reason why in the ancient time, Masters do not take Tu Di lightly and will only admit them after thorough testing (of their characters and determinations). If people in this forum really want to learn neigong, go to China and find the masters either through David or by themselves. Jiang, for example, is not difficult to find. His address and personal data are available in the internet (e.g. in the article published by the Taiwanese Apple Daily magazine).

Attacking the picture in the article with a needle is pointless because the magazine already stated that it was only a model. 手法二 罐拔瘀血（模擬） If you know Chinese, you can read the caption above the picture taken from the original article. It said in parenthesis, "moni" or proposed model. The magazine did state clearly that this picture, unlike all the others, was a model based on the proposed use of a needle (Sifu Jiang should have known about this). The writer was wrong about the needle but I wonder if one can simply tap a spot on the body very hard, cup, then tap again to break open a skin. Blood then naturally coagulates. What is Xiao Dao with tesla coils? So what the student said about tesla coils was correct then. If you have a reference to the student's retraction, can you please provide the link to the article?

Drew, A thread discussing Jiang has been posted elsewhere: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showto...jiang&st=60 A Taiwanese magazine claimed that he is a fraud. Here is a clip taken from the magazine (in Chinese): http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/flyzenmaster-wi...3&next=1571 According to this article, his full name is Zhai Jiang Feng. He is the fifth lineage holder of the Shaolin Geng Men (Heavenly Gate) Qigong. He lives in HuangShan and supposedly has disciples in Taiwan, Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore. How Shaolin Geng Men Qigong becomes part of LeiShanDao is a mystery to me. At any case, Sifu John, Jiang and Wang Li Ping are not in the same lineage. Now, can you imagine a Master continues to teach a student once he knows that the student is studying with another Master? Anyone who knows Martial Art culture would know that it is disrespectful to the teacher for a student to study co-currently with more than 1 master and is a big no no.

Sean...I know what you said here is simply not true! I hope that you are just misinformed and not made things up just to beef up David's credentials. What Scualo said was correct ("David is not a student of John Chang anymore"). In fact, I understand that David has never really studied with John Chang.. he was just one of the visitors. I remember David himself said in your forum that he was John Chang's non-practicing student. Furthermore, anyone who studies qi knows that it is not good to mix things up....Here you claims that in addition to Mopai, David is studying with Jiang and Wang Li Ping. Even if they are in the same general lineage as you claim there are (but there is really no supporting evidence what so ever), this mixing-qi practice (if David really does it) could lead to major health problems.

Buddy, It is healthy to have some levels of skepticism but one can't be too closed minded either. In addition to dark matter/energy, there are many phenomena unexplained by the current state of science. Acupuncture, for example, has been proven to work (clinical trials have been done and scientific papers have been published) but we have no clue how. Of course if you haven't experienced it, you won't believe that a few needles can somehow cure a disease. I am sure for many people the same principle applies for Qi. As for Sean Denty, his teacher's credential is indeed questionable. I don't understand why his teacher, David, wouldn't gladly supply the information about where/when he got his doctoral degree. There shouldn't be anything secretive about it especially because PhD thesis is usually available publicly either in the university library or published in a journal. Having said that, I wouldn't discount Sean's claims about Sifu Jiang so easily either. The burn on the palm looks interesting and looks real although I also don't understand why anyone would want his/her laogong point burned like that. According to Chinese doctors, laogong is a major point, if hurt, it can lead to health problems.

Until recently, many physicists thought that they have solved the "big" questions in physics and that there are only a few forces like gravity, electromagnetism, strong and weak forces. Do you know what you call "natural laws" in your previous post only cover 4% of the universe? 96% of the universe are dark energy and dark matter. Here for example is an interview with a prominent physicist regarding his discovery of dark matter/energy and his total lack of understanding of what they are: http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=discov...a-dark-universe. There are many books written about dark matter/energy but no one has any clue to what their characteristics are (hence the name "dark"). My point is even physicists can't say that everything has to obey the known "natural law" as they don't even know what govern 96% of our universe! How would you know that qi may not relate to dark energy? (I don't know the answer of course but neither do you or anyone else).

Richard is his last name. You were apparently given the wrong info. Very interesting and detailed description of what David teaches. It seems to me that these are all Daoist techniques. There is no methods taught by Shifu Zhai then (who supposedly teaches Shaolin Geng Men technique, which is Buddhist)? It seems to me that you don't really need scientists...all you need are a metal detector, an electrical measurement device (assuming that qi electricity will be very different from regular electricity generated by battery or Tesla coils) and an infra-red thermometer (or an infra-red video) to measure if an intense heat can come from Shifu Zhai's finger.

I am just trying to get a reasonable explanation for the article. Sean's reasoning that he did this to avoid publicity just does not make any sense to me....he actually got more publicity because of it. It is hard to dismiss Atek so easily because he has so much information, has no obvious motivation to lie and also because of the purported insane amount of $ given for the "dan" pills. On the other hand, I actually think that Zhai's videos which were available briefly in youtube, did look quite convincing (that he has some kind of power).

Hi Sean, Sorry to say that your argument that all the Masters have lied to lie to avoid public scrutiny rings hollow to me....I don't see the motivation in this story. As it happens, I know Richard, the guy who went looking for John Chang a few years ago...his story of what happened there is completely opposite of what you wrote in the forum..you might want to check with your source again. As for Atek, the person who went to the Taiwanese Daily Newspaper, how do you know that he was not a student? He has so much information about Shifu Zhai not found elsewhere, including Shifu Zhai's age, full name, address, Zhai's previous job as a Tui Na practitioner in XiHai hotel, his pictures etc that it is hard to believe that he was not a student or at least someone who knew Shifu Zhai well. I can understand being upset when a Master that you genuinely believe was attacked publicly but to convince people, your statements should be based on some facts. I don't see any motivation for Atek to lie in this story and I am still yet to be convinced that Shifu Zhai was simply playing game. After all, I am sure that Shifu Zhai has a reputation to uphold with the Foundation students and his students all over Asia. Regards, Brian

Hi Sean: I am not aware of any articles that support your sweeping claim above. Can you actually back this up with references (i.e. links to articles about someone with close personal experience with either John Chang or Wang Liping and claims that they are not real?). Of course, we can believe whatever we want but when a large sum of money is exchanged, suspicion arises because the motivation for fraud is there. I assume from your answer that you haven't personally met Shifu Zhai.... how can you dismiss this article so easily then?

As I said, the original article can be found in the Taiwanese Apple Daily http://1-apple.com.tw/apple/. You'll need to register first and then perform a search. The blog is identical to the newspaper article in the Apple Daily web site.

Hi All: I have followed the different topics in this forum for a long time and find many of the contents fascinating. I decided to become a member so that I can also participate in the conversation. I have practiced DaYan Qigong for more than 10 years and Sitting meditation for more than 15 years. I also practiced Martial Arts. Neikung (Brian)