Green Tiger

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I don't think you can presume an infinite regression of cause and effect. At a certain point, cause and effect may break down into something else. Cause and effect is just a cosmic tendency (and not an altogether persistent or universal one at that) that may have began shortly after the big bang. I don't think you've effectively debunked a creator. You've just indicated that the origins of the universe transcend our current understanding of cosmic tendencies.

This is how most internet arguments appear to me:

I think you know you've reached the goal if you've gone 100 days without ejaculation. IME, the effect of doing something like this greatly depends on your energetic sensitivity. In other words, your mileage may vary.

Thanks for all the prompt responses, MPG. I think I have a much clearer idea about how our practices differ now.

Oh, I see. Yes, that makes much more sense. You're feeding a grounding wire inside your pants and it is directly touching your perineum. That is hard core. Did JC meditate that way, or did he just take his pants off? If you didn't have a grounding wire handy, would you have to take your pants off to meditate? How many hours per day is it recommended you sit like that?

Oh, you are wearing pants. So you're sure yin chi can get through your pants, but not 30,000 feet of atmo. What about a blanket? What about a meditation cushion filled with buckwheat hulls? What is the threshold of conductivity?

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying that the process starts because it is in our karmic dna. It's sort of like destiny, or fertility. We either have the potential or we don't. Yeah?

You have absolutely no way to measure how much or what kind of energy is being cultivated. All you have are varying cultivation techniques and an assumption that one is superior. Antithetical? Different, maybe. Antithetical? No. So, you're not wearing pants and you've got your perineum pressed against the ground. Gotcha. And you're saying that you're certain we are not cultivating the same energy because we are wearing pants and our perineum is not touching the ground?

I tried to find a place that would ship that beer to me, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen. If I want some, I'm just going to have to go to Indiana and get some.

Is the next workshop going to be in Terra Haute? If that's the case, then I'm going to have to insist it is a Three Floyds beer. Maybe a Zombie Dust?

Did anyone say that? I don't think anyone said that. I think you said, "Hey guys, I know you think you've got yin chi, butcha don't. Only Mo Pai does, cuz we only meditate on the ground and ya'll are meditating up in the air. Neya neya." Then some SM people said, "Nuh uh, we do so have yin chi." and SOME people may have even claimed it's the same yin chi as Mo Pai, but I think there were also some who were open to the possibility that they are different energies. I don't think you have any ground to toss around group accusations like that. No, they totally might be different energies. They could also be the exact same energy exhibiting different characteristics. We would have to come up with a definition of yin chi and a reliable way to detect it before we could conclude that, though. Really, this entire argument is all about definition. You define the words "yin chi" based on certain attributes you have come to know this word to be associated with. The S-M practitioners define it by the attributes they are familiar with. To be honest, I see some correlations between the two. You quoted Kostas as saying that the yin chi JC filled him with made him feel "full" and squeezed his bladder. That is a feeling I am very familiar with. The only real difference I see is that the S-M people are able to practice their cultivation successfully anywhere. You say that yin chi can only be accessed when sitting on the ground with no insulation barrier. Okay, can you wear pants? If so, that means the yin chi can get through your pants right? What is the threshold at which yin chi can no longer be successfully cultivated? What kind of pants can you wear? Blue jeans? Do they have to be cotton pants? If you can't wear pants, then why is JC wearing that loin cloth in all of the pictures of him meditating? Is that modesty for the photo op? Is the loin cloth open at hui yin? If you can't wear pants, does your perineum actually have to be making contact with the ground? Your definition of yin chi is just very narrow compared to what most people are accustomed to and we could narrow it even further. I find this interesting and would like to explore it, but I think you need to give up your crusade to convince everyone that your definition of yin chi is the gold standard just because it comes from Mo Pai. It may be that the yin chi you are talking about is somehow different from the yin chi that other people are talking about. How can we examine both to determine their similarities and differences? How can we approach this topic in the spirit of cooperation instead of competition? Because, let's face it folks, the world at large is against us. If this community spends more time arguing about the ways in which we differ than we do sharing and discussing our experiences, then I think we are wasting our time.

Hey MPG, So I talked to the ancient ones and they said we're all just a little confused. What the Stillness Movement folks have been talking about is actually yabba dabba yin energy. What the Mo Pai folks have been talking about is yabba doo yin energy. Totally different, just like you said! So I guess you were right all along. Glad that's settled. In all seriousness though, regardless of what you want to label the energy you're cultivating, you're wasting it arguing about labels. My $0.02.

Yes . . . the hallmark of scientific medical study is not actually the double-blind trial with a randomly selected participant pool . . . it's the presence of scientists and medical doctors . . . Electromagnetic anomalies are another topic entirely. I was talking about a trial to study the effectiveness of a chi-based healing technique.

Presumably, the random sampling of people would include plenty of participants who were completely oblivious. Few to no true believers would be involved, I suspect.

If by "possible climate change" you mean the dead rising from the grave and kick starting the zombie apocalypse, then I think so.

We could take a random sampling of participants and perform a double-blind trial and I'm confident the results would be well above placebo, but no such trial has been performed, so far as I know. Would probably be higher on my 'to do' list if I were interested in convincing skeptics. I'm more interested in developing skillz

Placebo effects maybe 35-40% of patients in any given study that is placebo controlled. Ya Mu's healing techniques have a MUCH higher rate of effectiveness. When he is personally performing the healing, the effectiveness is nearly 100%. I've been to three of his healing seminars and have seen some very remarkable results first hand. You're right, the proof is in the pudding.

Well, I definitely prefer to meditate outside on the ground, but I was never told I had to. Did you actually meet with John Chang or did you learn this from one of his students? So when you say, "work with yang energy" that doesn't mean they only CULTIVATE yang energy. It just means that when they use the chi for healing or martial arts or whatever, in that way they only use yang energy. Is that right?

Kostas's words, not mine. http://timemonkradio.com/threads/kostas-danaos-time-monk-radio-network-presents-july-30th-2011.34/ IME, the best characterization of yin and yang energy is like north and south poles of a magnet. Kostas seems to frequently reference solar energy as being yang and gravity as yin. While the energy of nuclear fusion is expansive the energy of gravity contracts. "Vying for supremacy" does seem to invoke some connotations that are not fitting to these models.

I think he means that they are opposing forces more like oil and water, but wherever one is, the other is drawn.

I recently listened to an interview of Kostas and he said that you can't get yang without yin. One follows the other, always vying for supremacy. How, in your opinion, is yin energy cultivated separate from yang?

For what it's worth, I've heard wu chi (hunyuan) also called "health stance" and santi shi called "combat stance." I don't think you could really say one is better than the other. Each can be practiced with different intent also. I've heard instructors teach wu chi stance that could be construed as more martial, emphasizing a sense of alertness in the stance and a feeling of being like a cat ready to pounce. I usually recommend beginners practice wu chi for a few minutes before and after each tai chi session, then, after they've been practicing for a while and built up their standing time to 20 minutes or so, add the santi shi. I guess I feel that wu chi is more foundational, but I wouldn't say it is less powerful or inferior in any way.

Does anyone know, when we talk about heaven and earth chi and yin and yang energy in the Stillness-Movement system, are those the same or parallel concepts? Is there any difference between earth chi and yin energy or yang chi and heaven energy, as far as Stillness-Movement is concerned?

Now that's powerful martial ability! Who needs a no-touch knockout when you can get no-touch pacification?