Informer

Ask the man who supposedly plays neigong It's all awareness, as awareness is like water, the formless form, no form so all forms. Emptiness is formless, certain energy points are molds for it to form too. (The fact that you are questioning it makes me think that you are inherently that as well, underneath all the constructs, we all are, only that.)

Exactly, so realize those are 2 separate points. Self not existing, does not equivocate to nothing existing, as I think your friend would have you believe. You do exist, behind the self, behind the illusion, behind the curtains, as the awareness of it all.

Haha, did I sound irritated? I was trying to figure out what you were meaning, and yes, I agree it is more of a stepping stone than an accumulation point, it should Flow through each points if you can. You can hold some there, but it is better to let it flow through them. Thanks ish.

It is saying that "life" is a combination of our vital essence or spirit and the physical body. Like a nexus where the two combine and intermingle as one. I would relate the vital essence toward the creative aspects of thinking that exist with in our brain and the logic to be related to the body aspect being described here. There is only a single point in your brain that these can meet, that is the third eye. (numinous) The numinous accord is the frequency that has been correlated to the third eye, which is at 963 Hz :

This is continuing the self-inquiry which it began to describe in the previous chapter. Explaining that we need to be free of attachments and illusion to achieve the numinous vital breath.

It's pointing at the third eye. "While the ghostly and numinous will penetrate it, It is not due to the power of the ghostly and numinous" (a warning ) Unifying awareness is the key, finding the creative and logic awareness and the only place they can unite. I think that vital breath is talking about AKA prana, celestial chi, pre heavenly chi, etc, which feels like a steady flow "chills" throughout the body, this is achieved through the numinous, or the relatively highest point of the energy body "third eye". The questioning is revealing the subjective nature of this phenomena, there is still nothing truly objective ever been presented as evidence to anyone but yourself of this phenomena. So it has rang true since this book was written, (I would consider it a subjective law). The rest of it seems to be explaining the 1st part of the process and what to expect, and it seems akin to self-inquiry / anatta.

Are you going to explain the logic and rationale behind this, or present quotes from anothers point of view which you derived this insight, or am I to just consider you to be trolling?

If it is who I think it is, then he will probably present a fallacious argument which is known as an argument from ignorance: For instance, he will say that since you can't find a self that is evidence that you do not exist. (False Dichotomy) You would have to draw really long lines of fallacious logic to say self not existing equivocates to you not existing. "Cogito ergo sum" (I think therefore exist (my version to eliminate the circular element of I)) by Descartes, shows that by pondering existence we are affirming existence, for that ponderance must arise from or in something. It doesn't say to me that you exist, or to me how I exist, or even what I am, only that there is something in existence to precede the thought of such. Anatta in a nutshell: I is generally pointing to the "self", or the little image in the picture. If these things are seemingly contradictory, look again before you rebuttal. This is what I think your "enlightened" acquaintance is saying in conclusion: "Since I can't see anything, nothing exists!"

I think this is what your guy was referring to, yet does not understand it really: The little guy viewing the screen inside your head, that you "think" you are, is not what you are. You are the awareness that the little guy arises in. The little guy is a construct built by you. It doesn't mean You don't exist, it means that idea of you isn't you. Emptiness does not equate to non-existence. So can you see how "you" doesn't exist but you do exist? (P.S. realizing you are not the image that guy has in his head is not enlightenment, but it is a step in the right direction.)

What makes you say that ish? I found the jade pillow by accident, and it seemed the only option to get from spine to brain. It wasn't described in the kundalini system I was using at the time and seemed helpful if not necessary.

Did you do any sort of self inquiry Jetsun? I remember trying to trace where is "I AM", and found it to be at the heart as well, yet it was also being attached to the image, so it was not "a free heart". If heart is attached to an image, then I could see that could be fire there, which is related to ego (imo). Like when you get angry when someone is correcting you and even if your wrong you don't want to admit it and have this welling up in your throat, (ego) is trying to be correct and only knows fire, it is attached with fire. I think the trick is to realize that there is more than fire in the heart, then you will have 2 MDT. (imo) Ego seems akin to fire, whereas heart seems akin to true-self. Heart keeps the ego in check. As it keeps the fire in check (ime)

I see it as will power is like exercising will over something, choosing for it, where will is simply choosing for you.

Desire is as to obtain things that one does not have and is not likely to have, (wanting) is what it seems to me he was referring to. So it is not in regards to spiritual evolution, (Spiritual evolution is something we all already have and can achieve). it is not wanting, but doing. Intention to realize spiritually is using will, so everyone who is reading a spiritual text likely has some sort of intention there. The real question is what is will (imo) . (Choosing and Doing)

Sounds to me like you got it, they seem to be pointing at the same thing. (Which is all this is, pointers) I think the trick is to point at the same thing using the fewest words.

A fallacy of division occurs when one reasons logically that something true of a thing must also be true of all or some of its parts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_division

I think it is possible that I haven't properly discovered it, but to me wood is equivalent to earth, which is really a "ground" for energy. Not earth or wood, but ground.(like a tree and earth both ground energy). Also fire x fire only = fire. So what is fire being combined with then to achieve heart/fire?

There is not wood within us from what I have seen, there is heart and lightning. Our body corresponds closely and with those elements, it should be obvious I think. We can all feel those sorts of energy, and we know our neurons fire with sparks like lightning. Such is tradition to continually perpetuate wrongness even when there is better explanations. There is metal in our blood as well as electrolytes which increase electrical conductivity.

This really isn't rocket science. There is no thought involved, only focus. Nothing to intellectualize, you only have to feel. 1. You clear your mind and relax your body and sit or stand with your spine straight. The best way I have found to do this is breath in deeply and fast through your nose, then let it out as slowly as possible through your nose or mouth, whichever you feel most comfortable. Do this for roughly 5 - 10 minutes or however long it takes you to get relaxed. 2. Focus you attention to the lowest part of your spine (coccyx). Focus there as long as it takes to feel something. Then keep focusing until you definitely feel something unmistakably, like a ball of energy. 3. Now move your focus to the Kidney point or Ming Men, and keep focusing until your feel that ball of energy there. Focus more until it is definitely unmistakebly there. 4. Then move your focus to the T-11 point, and keep focusing until your feel that ball of energy there. Focus more until it is definitely unmistakebly there. 5. Then move your focus to the point opposite the heart, and keep focusing until your feel that ball of energy there. Focus more until it is definitely unmistakebly there. 6. Then move your focus to the C-7, and keep focusing until your feel that ball of energy there. Focus more until it is definitely unmistakebly there. 7. Then move your focus to the Jade Pillow, and keep focusing until your feel that ball of energy there. This point is more difficult to achieve and make take a while. If you don't manage to get there, then try again next time. 8. Then move your focus to the top of your head or (crown) and focusing on that point move energy through the crown into the cavity of the spirit (third eye)

I found it easiest to focus at the points until a ball of energy coalesced at the point, the I focus on the next point until a ball of energy was there, all the way to third eye. The hardest point for me was gettin it from the spine to the brain, which the Kundalini Chakra system doesn't describe the point utilized to get from the spine to the brain which is described in MCO as the Jade Pillow or Cranial Pump.

The first part of MCO is in regards to the spine. (governor channel) Then it switched to the functional channel, which Yoga's call the pingala. Notice the first point (governor channel) in the following circuit is the Sacral pump or the Coccyx. The coccyx is the biological name for the tail bone. Thanks for the info and further correlation of ida and pingala.

I would guess it was a lucid dream to astral projection.

I don't see why Seth wants to only help in private? He should help in this thread for others who may need it in the future, as well as be subject to critique.

You are right, Kundalini is not Taosim. Kundalini is the process of awakening in Yoga, as is Internal Alchemy the process of awakening in Taoism. The awakening process to activate third eye is the same. Realizing the "Seat of the soul" is the same has activating third eye. Internal alchemy better explains the relative locations proceeding Third eye. (imo) They are describing the same phenomena in different way, and they each think their way is right or unique or different if there is ego present. Tradition is for the lose. A person who copyrights his work is not much of a teacher as he is a business man, (imo) for there is truly nothing to own in regards to spirituality. It has all been said and done before, non of these guys are saying anything important that is new that hasn't already been said. They are copying others, if they followed a predefined path, and making it their own. (which it isn't)

You may have misquoted friend, cat didn't do it proper to be copied. I think these were the quotes? and I would be interested to know if Mantak Chia does say something like : "The heart is the body's main store house for the fire element.. " (which would unlikely considering the comparison and contrast between these quotes)