sunshine

And just if you care to know. In the school I am currently learning with the MCO only comes after many many many many many many many many many years of practices....! & some info from my teach Oleg on the MCO (from his teachings point of view): http://www.inbiworld.com/academy_program_a...mp;newacademy=1 Harry

I very much hope it turns out to be. Time will tell.... but that was not what it was about Harry

There is one teacher that might be what you are looking for: http://www.aypsite.com/ I do not know what the practice actually leads to in the end but if I had not found what I have in the last year I would continue his practices. His replies to me have always been those of a kind teacher and his material is about free. Harry

See sykkelpump >>Like I said earlier, mainly health benefits and being able to apply chi energy to my martial arts techniques.<< This is the reason the question asked is at least a practical and to me necessary one. Depending on what one wants to achieve one can choose from a different spectrum. Your statement about having to have ones channels open first before getting any "great" results with chikung might be true, but that chikung can't help you open channels is far from the truth as many of the forum sure will tell you as well. And it is not just about opening channels and generating more Qi. Tao-Newbie: If you want health: look for a good balanced Qigong that claims no more than that, depending on specific health issues you might want to pick up some kind of medical Qigong. Maybe check out Dr. Tan: www.drtanshow.com While I haven't had the chance to do the Qigong with him so far I know him from his acupuncture classes. highly recommendable! If you want something for [i]martial arts [/i]I hear that SIFU WONG KIEW KIT is a pretty fine choice: http://wongkk.com/ hope that helps Harry

Do yourself the favor and really spend some time reading through "Trunk"'s work. It is really a treasure house something to keep in mind before picking up any practice is: what do you actually want to achieve? Harry

In my humble opinion: The amount of money one charges does not say anything about their quality or achievement of whatever. It might tell you something about what the person in mind believes about themselves... ( we know from some healthpractitioners that really do not that much believe in themselves that they charge pretty low prices and barely manage to sustain themselves. What good are they for mankind in general if they charge single persons less and sooner or later have to give up because they fail to sustain a living or get ill because they work too much in order to still sustain a living from the little they charge etc. etc. etc.). But if somebody has quality and truly something to offer it is up to them to charge whatever they like (aside from the possibility that heaven might want it differently actually). You won't expect Phil Collins teach you playing the drums for a price a street drummer would charge you, would you? If you want high quality food you will pay high amounts of money and you know why! If you want supereducation you tend to have to pay considerbale amounts to get it. Often the trouble is not that one is paying one person a lot, but on the search paying too much for too many who do not really "deserve" it. In my humble opinion Harry

You know. Some people enjoy piercing nails through their big toe and others love banging their head against walls... doesn't mean it is good for them. And my statement of not mixing practices refers to the practice I am doing right now. My teacher is very clear about that what we do is no joke and one can mess things up pretty easily and quickly! Does not mean it refers to the practices that you are doing... but as we are on the topic: I know of at least three different teachers that advise against it! Depending on the practices it might at minimum mess all up and at worst kill you. Something to consider. Thankx for sharing what a typical practice day of yours looks like. Harry

Don't think you'll be hearing from him... Wang Li Ping is still said to have a son if my mind serves me well

Would be interested were you got that from? Wake therapy is a method utilized for people with depression... one can often see then that mood gets better... does not work in every case... While I personally know there is a "too long stayed in bed"-state I also know that one simply needs to sleep as much as one needs. Difficult is just sometimes to find out how much it actually is. My sleeping seems to have stabilized recently (for now) and is pretty much "fixed" at 8 hours. Below that I yawn all day, above that I get muscle pain from lying too long...

AHA. Got it (at least I think so) I tell you. This celibacy thing makes one go weird the moment anyone speaks about girls, even if it is just a metaphor, thereby missing the point... there are no 20 hours a day to screw it up. It is a fulltime commitment Harry

Little, I am single, so much of what you rightfully hinted at does not really count for me. Further: nobody ever said that people on a certain path have a simple life. And by the way: not only spiritual seekers have trouble spending proper (don't even touch the topic of worthwhile) time with their partners! Look at the world of "non-seekers" everywhere! And by the way: at the seminar we were reminded, in order to realize the importance of the task and that what we intend to do really IS a serious commitment: that Buddha did not teach to householders and Jesus asked people to leave their families to follow him. The much "avoided topic" you refer to is the topic opened by my question? Harry Ian. Is it possible to rephrase your "statement" in a way that someone like me, whose mother-tongue isn'T English, can get what you mean? I am completely at a loss, although I am sensing the same quality as "Trunk"!!! Harry

Profound words indeed. Thank you And may you manage it to Wu Dang Mt. Sacred Ground! Harry

>>If you see 20, or 50, or 150 people come through a system, and there's a significant percentage that have a similar pattern of bruises - it's worth noticing.<< Yep! Fully of your opinion... but the typical trouble of a "group" is that you still don't really know any truth even though they all might tell you "the same" and they had "this and that experiences"? I mean. I have often met people who claim they have seen angels etc. etc. etc. But just because 8 out of 10 in a group say they share that experience does not really mean anything, does it? - until you yourself actually see them... right? Harry

>>I'm not sure how I feel about you asking me that. Seems like common verrrnacular would better suit seekers.<< Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... was not asking for feelings. I was just wondering. You said that "those who expect nothing are never disappointed" in reponse to my question "why belief should be suspended", as you stated earlier. So I was wondering if you manage to not expect anything... >>Dharma Inititive?<< This is something from Lost, is it? >>Truly?? If you can get your hands on a book entitled The Bodhisattva Warriors there is a section in there on the traditional somatic training that explains well the manifold deconditioning and unification process that the seeker undergoes in order to learn. The nature of knowledge is from the inside out in the art of chi gung. << Here it is. Were is it that belief has no place? You have to have the belief that this book is TRULY telling something... do I miss something? Maybe belief and faith are two different things? I am missing the difference but maybe one better says: You have to faith in that what you believe is true, is actually true. >>Also the aspect of maintaining an unbroken practice for successive generations is benificial for the advancment of the student seeker. IMHO<< IMHO, too. Harry

Yep. It's been discussed a lot in recent times... I personally feel you can never really know if you have not gone the path already to find out And as you can grasp from all the discussions on the topic even if somebody tells you their teacher is real and is not just out for money etc. etc. etc.: it does not mean that others believe you or trust the scenario. I have done many things in the last 14 years and often found it out to be a cheat, not really worth it etc. etc. etc. As I say. You have to go the way and find out for yourself One thing I can tell you. Don't look for John Chang. He does not teach anyone of us anymore. And Kosta is not in the position to, as far as I understood. Harry

Are you at the level to expect nothing? And: just because you expect something does not mean you are disappointed if you don't get it. Might be a causal for many but not for all! And by the way: I don't get how "expectation" and your statement about "belief" are truly linked... You speak of natural landmarks and signposts... how do you know what is natural and what is not? Each river has his own on its way to the ocean! Harry

Why?

>>You can take this thread as an opposition of a guy that cant stand others "dissing" Chia, and Chia's stuff. But it's not, belive me.<< Taken for granted! - although I sense there is a kind of "passion" you developed towards Denty as him for Chia >>It's just a bewildered reaction to the incomprehensible human abillity to skip over very apparent things.<< If you have worked in psychiatry like me you wouldn't wonder!!! >>Including my own.<< and my own Harry

Little, >>did you teacher ever told you what level is he? did J Chang tell anyone?<< Indeed we know, but don't ask vor definite answers >>why should I and how could I. I'm no way near that far.<< How then can you know for sure? >>All I can say is there is just a little difference between me and you. Little, but it is << There is indeed no prob for me >>The UTS doesnt quantify the levels like the Mo Pai.<< I wonder if you ever understood that I was arguing with you about systems? >>But it has so many layers. If you see just the surface and think this is it...<< You won't here a word from me against it >>And you search for definitive answers form me, but did your teacher gave them to you?<< I am just asking and questioning, as I am asking and questiniong others... >>Tell me, if you were to start fresh, which path would you choose: - one that tells you that if you dont go all the way, there is nothing to acheive? the one that tells you that you have to do it, and you can die trying? - or the one that makes the practice available for anyone, at whichever level one wants to practice them? or one that makes sure that even if you practice only five minutes a day, if you do it good, you will have good benefits?<< My answer: I have chosen a path that is open for everyone to pick up and open for everyone to walk as far they intent, taking as a possible limit into the equation the "will of heaven"... and I have taken up a path for now where there is honesty to say that if you do not practice a certain amount of time you are wrong on this specific path! If you don't want it, don't pick it up. It is that simple. As my teacher Oleg tends to say, and I am just repeating myself: "If you don't want to practice 3 hours a day better pick up jogging. It will have the same benefits and you save a lot of money and time. " I once was contacted by a a nice guy who said that in his teacher's system it takes them just 20 minutes a day to practice and they will develop capabilities quickly and advance quickly on the spiritual path. This might be true and I wish for him it is... I just don't believe it to be that easy. If it were... time for practice Harry

Little, I very much hope you followed all of the thread... and not just one or two opinions here and there...c >>This is the main purpose in the UTS. The building of the integrity and spiritual independence. This is the main goal, and it takes so long to acheive, that you simply cannot aford spending time developing "special" gongfu.<< I assume that this is a little side kick towards "David's stuff". Could it be? In case so: "special gongfu" in your sense is not what it is about and what "they" work on...!!! Indeed it is about independency but probably in a very different sense than you make use of the word... >>This is what I am after.<< precious goal! >>In time, I found out about the "secrets of the Mo Pai's". And guess where. We have the tools, and we can do it<< Ah well. How can anybody know truly anything about the secrets of Mo Pai if they haven't been instructed in that path??? >>And the "secrets" are in plain sight, in Chia's stuff But until I was pointed at them, did I see them? At least the first four levels.<< With the first four levels? Where are you then??? I just wish for you that you are right. I assume we both don't really know for sure anything about the pathes we walk. We both just believe and hope. If you know you are a lucky man. I don't. I just walk the path for now with faith and this one for specific reasons. >>You said he is getting old... Have you seen him lately? I did.<< Have I ??? To be honest. I am only 33 years of age and already pretty forgetful. And no. I haven't seen him lately. Actually I haven't met him for maybe at least 8 years. One of the reasons me personally wouldn't claim to know anything about him and what he is doing except what I heard from friends in the last several years, who did training with him. Do I use it for an argument... not me! And just for the record: my Dad always looked 20 years younger than he indeed was... and he sure was not into longevity practices... >>One more thing, those that brag about not feeling much when they see a woman. That's a no-no.<< Hmmmmmmmmmmmm... hope that is not hinted at me... as I sure don't belong into this category Harry

I wonder which board that could be Seriously. I feel a little bad for having brought to life "Chia stuff" as a specific term. Far from any intent. And just in case anybody got me wrong. The formulation has nothing to do with showing respect or disrespect for what Chia is teaching and/or doing. Just to keep things straight Harry

I LOVED that part with the two-headed unicorn

Now tell me. Does his turtle teach publicly?

Take your time and read through this forum. You might find a teacher spoken about here, that catches your attention. And while Little and I are not always of the same opinion he is right in one thing: in order to be able to develop spiritually in modern society it is good to have a secure basis (school, work etc.)... take your time... Harry