sunshine

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... all the advise given by everybody responding to you is based on something I call compassion. I would not agree with everything being said, as not everybody agrees with what I said. But I tell you... I went your path and failed and I know people who went through the same - and for each of them it takes a long time to recover! You believe you know anything about meditation by reading about it? Fine. I read about it and got nowhere, I read about things, practiced them and damaged myself... it is all not that obvious in the beginning... it is not like somebody rams a knife into your heart and you know something is wrong... it is more like a little bleeding wound in your stomach which you get weaker from continuously... My advise given was not to scold you... far from it...! If you truly are able to keep your mind fully still for that extended period of time you are a lucky man. Maybe a true teacher will recognize you for it and guide you... but for your own benefit: forget about making it a "do-it-myself-experiment-class"... by the way. I did not respond to your IronShirt interest, but to your description of what kind of practices you do. Harry

This is a lengthy topic and I am by far not qualified to truly comment on it... but one thing I can tell you: out there there are some authorities that might tell you that "feeling the qi" is not "feeling the qi"... that there is a difference between the illusionary and the true... etc. etc. etc. one question though: are you able to sit and have a perfectly still mind for even just one minute? Harry

Heyhi, do yourself a big big favor. Better not to mess around with those practices if you do not have a teacher to rely on. Regarding Chia. Some will say he teaches authentic stuff, others say: well. He does not really... you will have to find out for yourself, but my advise in the first sentence holds true whichever way. Harry

These are all good questions... and I am not able to give any satisfying answers... what is the aim of cultivation? I assume it is liberation... but what is liberation? I assume it is saving the spirit, but saving it what from? There are many ideas and many explanations given. As long as I haven't grasped them properly I would want to refrain from talking about them much as I could only cloud them more by my poor understanding of things. David has written some essays and there you might find some hints... IF I understand right though one of the major ideas is to awaken from a state of sleep. If we don't awaken, we die and there is no way to tell if we come back to have the chance to awaken again in the way we are now. Our spirits tend to be scattered... lost in worldly affairs... one of the steps is to reclaim them back. Become a master of the mind again and not just stay a servant of it... These are some of the first steps to work on. If we master this we might have a chance to get more to know about the questions you ask and their answers. I have these questions myself, but realize that even if I were given an answer I would fail to understand it, as it is too high or too far for me to comprehend from the state of being I am now at. Harry

I am not sure what "their" view is on "God"... but we were told to pray as well, pray from the heart. One of my teachers mentioned the story of a girl that asked what we are doing all these practices for, as she herself believes that God saved her already. His answer was that if she truely has that strong and unshakable kind of a faith there is sure no need for all these practices as she is truly saved already! This is what he said... or at least what I understood Harry

>>>I am not sure I agree with your statement that only schools which can produce these effects are valid. The fact is that there are many schools which are rumored to produce all kinds of "spernatural" effects, but they either consider them irrelevant, or do not feel the need to display them publicly. If you are truly looking for enlightenment or transcendance, many of the buddhist schools have very well defined systems.<<< In my humble opinion many things got stated but a lot came across false. Actually it is not about powers per se. The idea is to say that there are "certain" powers one develops with specific training. If these powers appear at certain stages that are equal to all doing the same practices, then they can be more or less considered objective signs of some kind of progress... and "maybe even" signs of certain levels. It is not about aquiring powers! What is the value of those signs and for example the ability to move something by intent (just chose any kind of example): well. It shows that one has achieved something at least, hasn't it? Some kind of ability to have power over what we call "matter". These signs are valuable signs for helping one believe in what one does. At least to me it is. Sure. If one achieves a kind of bliss state after so and so many years of practice, then this is fine. But this is nothing that can be in any way proven by anybody outside of yourself, right? It requires a lot of belief to pick up a training that maybe after 10 years leads one to a state of bliss... which could not be shown to me upfront! I was told that if I have true belief in God I do not need all this kind of training. As it is: I do not have that much belief! It is like with those seemingly lucky people saying: "you do not need to do anything towards enlightenment. you are already enlightened..." How beautiful if they really realize that. BUT: FIRST one has GOT to REALIZE it... otherwise what they say is nothing more than a mind-game to the one not having realized it. Similar with "stillness": "stillness if always there" How beautiful. But first one needs to get to the point were one is able to perceive it... otherwise it makes no sense to "just believe" it. So. The value in a path that produces certain abilities is to prove oneself ones progress. At least to me it is! Regarding the following: >>In addition, there are also a couple of points about Lei Shan Dao you might want to consider: 1. If memory serves me, John Chang himself said (according to Kosta) that there is only ever 2 people alive at any given time that reach level 4 and higher in his art. The master and 1 disciple. 2. John Chang's master seems to harbor some prejudices againt western students. I am not trying to give you a hard time but I urge you honestly examine your motivations.<< According to David in the Lei Shan Dao the way his master presents it already quite a few masters have developed.... there is no restriction down to 1 or 2 or 3 or... who can achieve... and it is not John Chang's Mo Pei... the question about lineage holders might be a different one though. By the way. Just in case anybody ever understood that Lei Shan Dao is claimed to be the only valid path... that would sure be a misconception. It was only stated by David himself that the Lei Shan Dao is at least one that can be followed in a day to day urban life... something that seems not to be true for many other pathes. Harry

Over at the foundattion forum there is an article titled "On the Lei Shan Dao" that might give you an answer It's to be found in the essay section...

>>What I do is drop down into the dan tien and learn to see without my awareness rising back up to the head. (tricky at first).<< Very interesting indeed. Part of my current acupuncture training is "resting in the 'chest area'"... this allows one to perceive "subtle things" a lot better... with training we are meant to be able to differentiate between what is our own and what a client brings into a session. From that place we then are not only meant to realize what might be the problem but to be able to work with it from there... Harry

Much appreciated!!!

I am curious now: I was the only one replying. Is it, because: you all do agree? because: you all have no real clue? because: you don't want to share? Harry

From what I gathered so far: Ask the teacher of the "school" you get training with. There is not one answer for all... Harry

Cameron, some questions need not be asked at all or at least not in the way they are... (pun intended)... Yes. LOA is about what YOU want... and while it is, LOA has to work according to principles incorporating that others want too. This way if two guys want the same girl one basically reaches a similar state as it was before. One having an advantage over the other, whichever way. Then if you manage to still feel happy for the girl and the other guy, then there is no contradiction to LOA, is there? And if there is no other guy and you are the only one wanting that girl and LOA works in a way that girl wants you too then... that again is no contradiction to being awakened or whatever... all this "WHO is asking the question" to me is nothing more than trying to get one out of the typical ego state. Even if you are not you still are, aren't you? Even if you as the ego might be just a tiny little thought of a big consciouness then you still are that tiny little thought... and if you are a drop of a big conscious ocean you still are, aren't you? You will not disappear just because you are interconnected? And even if one were to say you as the drop are not THEN one would have to say that at least the ocean is. Thereby the drop itself is as well again. These discussions remind me of one of the funniest intellectual jokes ever... I might have already shared it though: Descartes was once sitting in a bar, thinking by himself: I think, therefore I am! The bartender that moments aks: You gonna have another ale??? Descates: I don't think... and BANG: he disappeared.... Harry

While I have not yet my mind up about LOA actually working or not I do not see trouble in solving above established polarity that to me is none. Where is the "factual border" in attracting a women by LOA (if it works) who is happy with you while still being able to be happy for her with another if LOA does not work out the way you wish? Harry

Peter. Over at the foundation training forum there recently was a more indepth discussion about the material written about in the book and its possible implications... Harry

Peter. I very much enjoyed the book. I only need to get prove that it really works. I will not manage to apply for training this year... but maybe next year to try. A friend of mine though will be to a seminar this July... Harry

Learning from more and more and different sources, that it is no good idea to blindly mix practices, I would not suggest it. Further: I once had some material here and is more close to martial arts training than any other practice... further: it is already not that easy to have a true taoist practitioner to train with, but having a true tensegrity practitioner close most likely is even more rare... and do yourself a favor: better not to learn whatever practice just from a book or a video. Harry

True students never sleep!!! And if they do usually only because they are pretty much fatigued... still. Cut down on things one can do without is a pretty clear advise... stop watching Gilmore Girls everyday and many others things on the "not so necessary list"... And believe me. Time in school is an issue, but it stays an issue thereafter !!! Harry

[Please guys. Don't start the flaming all over again...] what is been quoted above is interesting to discuss in a serious manner. Pat. I wholeheartedly agree with you that "each of us has our own path to find"... BUT: were do you take the absolute conviction from that "everything claimed ONLY comes from within" and the other possibility is BS??? I mean: hasn't this been a discussion in history so far and due to modern developments even more, having these two oppositie believes [one that everything can only be found within, the other that it all can be only found outside]??? But as far as I get it NOONE has so far given a complete and completely logical answer to this contradictiory points of view!!! AND: EVEN IF you are right and there IS actually everything to be found within, there is still the question to ask if most of us are able to find it/have access to it, WITHOUT the guidance of a teacher (and her/his practices)... on the other hand: if we accept modern claims that we all are connected by some kind of Zero Point Energy and in our most basic essence are one and the same, the the discussion about me & them is of no use at all, as there is neither me nor you in the usual sense... just some thoughts Harry

not quite right

Since it is a serious issue I very much assume there was no kidding intended... and as some girls and guys here seem to have proper relation to more advanced people this is a good question to ask in the hope for it to be conveyed... I once asked my current teacher if cultivation will be possible if the uterus gets taken out and if I remember correctly he basically said yes, as the energetic equivalent is still being there... But I can not offer more on this topic but want to simply ask: Is this nodule giving you any troubles??? If it is not I do not see any reasons to cut of a whole gland! Seriously!!! I mean: if they already proved it to be maligne only then (and in cases were it poses other troubles to you) I would consider this step to be undertaken. Another reason w/could be if it were working "autonom" (meaning: produces hormones outside of the typical regulation cycle)... Did the doctors you consulted give you any facts on the probabilty for it to degenrate into kinds of cancer? And: if you say. You just have to take life long medications... I'd say this is a good reason against surgery of the gland for no specific reasons except it being "big"... further: I very much assume the nodule is just on one side of the thyroid (which is mainly composed of two "individual" pieces connected in the middle) ? If that is the case then again one would have to wonder about the judgement to cut the whole gland, as easily leaving part of the gland can be achieved in that case... (depending on the size left is the amount of medication you might have to take) AND: the risk of damaging the laryngeus (recurrens) which renders the vocal cords partly or completely useless is there (though it is low it IS there)... if the surgeon actually damages the vocal chords directly in that case I assume he forgot the basics about anatomy... hope that helps Harry

This caught my eye I honestly suggest any adept on whichever pathes to pick up some form of "emotional clearing technique"... like EFT, PEAT and the like... I know some of you guys think it might get boring if there was nothing to fight over, but honestly: my impression often is that you are not so emotionally distant in your communications than you sometimes claim. It might be that some systems of training actually have some safety mechanisms for this (and maybe the clearing of channels truly clears people on an emotional level as well) but (from experience) I conclude that each path can be immensely enhanced with practices that specifically focus on certain areas... to me it is about freedom and this can not be achieved without being free from emotional triggers... AND (the following is important): the true reason for an emotional trigger to work is NOT outside of us BUT only in us. Harry

no issues (hope this smiley belongs to the 100% positive category !?! )

Yep. This makes complete sense (and shows exactly why I wouldn't make fun of you ) but in that case it is me who has to refer back on the topic of "David" as you said: See. You meet him at a seminar... then you go home and practice... then you meet him again at a seminar and hopefully get corrected... meanwhile one has to option to ask questions on a forum... in how far is that so different from what you yourself "promote" ??? I ask this out of curiosity, as I do not yet fully get the point! (and please everybody recognize: to me this thread is not about David...) Harry

While it is a great post, it was not so much intended as a thread on David but taken more general. >>From Mohammed to Jesus, the Buddha and Laotzu ANY teacher , sage guru, sifu, has or had individual viewpoints are they all would have said the exact same thing!<< Pat. It would be great if you could chime in over at the foundation forum and have a look on the recent thread: "Quantum Physics & cultivation in a holographic world" in a way I am touching that topic and in there might be a possible answer... Harry

>>>This is interesting. In fact the one problem I have with David's system is that you anchor yourself to the master to such an extent... or at least that's the impression I got from his essays... What I mean by 'anchor yourself' is when you search for the truth, instead of going to the deepest core of You, you're meant to go to your master... So this becomes an inside - outside sort of game - do you search for the Truth inside or in your master... It really doesn't resonate with me (on quite a profound level) to search for the truth in someone else... so in terms of 'truth' - you look into yourself and find the truth and then ask your master "is that the truth?" - the master answers "no look deeper"... so you look deeper and you reach the deepest point and embody the truth and you ask again "is that the truth?" - "no look deeper" - and so on... I believe you need another person to act as feedback for you otherwise you can get lost in your own illusions - this is the kind of teaching I learn from Jerry Stocking... it's a constant dance - you dance with another and see yourself reflected in them and notice the bits that you wouldn't have noticed by yourself..<<< Okay then. But if one goes to a friend, as a little child to a parent, as a student in school to a teacher: Who actually expects them to say: look deeper? The answer is in yourself! And who actually does that? If I go to martial arts training I don't expect the teacher to say: "Come' on, man. The truth is in yourself. If you go inside and dig deep enough THEN you will know how the proper techniques to address your oponent. If you just dig deep enough inside yourself the truth about Dim Mak will be revealed to you... and if you find some truth drop by and I then tell you if you found it or not... go and look inside" Please don't get me wrong. It might come across as making fun of you, but I don't! >>mind you - the other person doesn't necessarily need to be a master - especially early on in the game... kids can reflect back (sometimes) better than adults...<< This is a deep truth probably noone can deny Harry