ChiDragon

How in the world have you come up with this definition? Based on your definition, the line should read as follows: 2. A moral that can be moraled is not an eternal moral.

Yes, 邪不勝正.

So far, I've mastered the vital breathing. You think that I can counteract the fatal one?

Where did you get that idea? How did you come up with the logic like that? Yeah, one is talking about apples and the other is talking about oranges. Right on!

That may be hard to breathe the same air in one room.

What adding postnatal or prenatal energy are you talking about? I don't think you have the TCM definition down pad yet. Please try not to be an energymaniac.

I see that you have heard some wild Taoist tales.

Yes, it was understood that we do not breathe with the abdomen. The reason it was called abdominal breathing is that when we breathe in deeply, the abdomen is fully expanded. For those who didn't know, like the ancient Taoists, they saw the movement of the abdomen and thought it was doing all the breathing. The esoteric term was also called the Qigong breathing, LDT breathing, dantian breathing, and other various names.

Please keep in mind that I am a retired engineer. For that said, I must deal with logic and facts to support any rationale. I understand the mechanics of the respiratory system. However, I am having a problem understanding the difference between the external and internal breath. I don't see that we could say it in a similar way as external and internal in bleeding. You have a good explanation of the body mechanics with modern science. Something that the ancient Taoists did not have the luxury like we do. However, I have taken this luxury to go further in explaining it biologically using the cell respiration theory. That is where the oxygen and ATP energy come into the picture. The description in the above quote is actually known as abdominal breathing. Indeed, the internal breath is important. It goes into the biological aspect of cell respiration.

Did your teacher tell you why or what the dangerous part is if misapplied?

Okay! This part is very vague and illogical to me. I'd already explained my version using the three treasures. I had seen the same explanation online as the same as my version. As a matter of fact, that was where I had learnt it from.

Yes, I agree, that is the commonality of both methods.

As long as I see you mention breathing, I will accept that because it fits the modern native definition of Qigong! All the rest is immaterial.

I do agree that the purpose of both methods is different. I have no problem with your idea about Qigong. However, I need you to clarify what you mean by "Neidan has the goal of making the dan and from that immortality."

According to the modern interpretation of the esoteric term 真息, it is beyond normal breathing. It sounds like a myth. The interpretation was "不呼不吸的‘’ and the translation is "no exhalation and no inhalation." I had read a few times of this saying in the Taoist breathing method text.

How do you cultivate 命？What is 命 to you?

Thank you very much for your outline. The reason I started this thread is to hear what people know and how they practice neidan. Instead, I did not get any good response like the way you gave. I appreciate your kindness in listening to my thoughts with an open heart. The appreciative response from you with an open mind is admirable. From my bicultural background, I have a better chance to see and hear both sides of the story. I can see that it is much easier for me to hear your story. However, it is not so easy for others to hear mine. It was due to the different exposure of our experiences. It is just a matter of respect for the time you spent on the subject. I will just say a few words in return. Thanks again!

You didn't mean that, I hope! 你不是在开玩笑吧？

（《道德经》）的第八章。 描述是： “上善若水。水善利万物而不争，处众人之所恶，故几于道。”

No offense. Any thing I had read relating to breathing was always used the term LDT. If a school doesn't use the term at all, I would question what are they teaching to the students.

Good answer! BTW. If my normal breathing has not been reached to LDT breathing, then I would be intentionally try to get there by breathing practice. After I'm able to do that, it will be my normal breathing habit and become unintentional.

I knew this bait was coming for an attack.

Yes! If in TCM, jing is defined as the structure of the body, and in modern science, cell is the basic unit of the body. Don't you get the implication that the Jing is equivalent to the body cell? Qi is ATP Yes! 氣 is the vital source keep the body in tact by the TCM definition. In modern science, ATP is biological energy to keep the body to function normally. Do you see the similarity between them? Yes, here and only here, I would say 氣 is ATP. Shen is something that guides the body (?) Yes, 神 (shen) is like the mind of the body or the soul of the body. The process of Neidan is deep abdominal breathing - because this gives good cell health and vitality. Yes, that was exactly the point I was making all along. The Dan is nothing more than health produced in this way. Yes, exactly. 內丹(Neidan) is a virtual pill. The ancient Taoist thought it could be produced by the 內丹術. In effect there is no real difference between qigong and neidan (?). It is because both method involves breathing. BTW It is safe to say, any method involves with breathing would be considered 氣功. It is because by definition, 氣功 is the method of breathing. Somehow, I think the Chinese teachers had misled the public. Since they told the definition of 氣 is "energy" in the west, the Chinese are starting to think that is what it is too. Is this roughly correct in your view? Yes, that is exactly correct in my view. Thank you for your patience and being a good listener. You are a gentleman and a scholar! PS It seems you have captured all of what I said. I don't know if you are resonated with me or not? I love to hear your view too!

Do you consider abdominal and reverse LDT breathing intentional?

Regular breathing is done by one's breathing habit. One can breathe shallow, short, deep, slow or fast at a different rate. It was considered to be the normal way of breathing to each individual. However, it is not necessary to be the correct way of breathing. Tu Na is done in a regulated manner. Tu Na(吐納) method: Tu (吐): Exhale slowly with the abdomen contacted inward all the way. Na(納): Inhale slowly with the abdomen expanded outward all the way. By doing so, it was known as slow, long and deep breathing. This method was the way how the ancient Chinese Taoists practiced Chi Kung breathing exercise during meditation. I need to update the information regarding to Neidan breathing. It was defined by the Taoist that is to perform reverse LDT breathing during Neidan meditation. There is an explanation why people become healthy and strong from practicing Chi Kung. It is because breathing has a biological effect to the body internally. PS The Tu Na breathing method is universal throughout the internal, external and martial arts practices.