ChiDragon

Have you seen a fat Taoist Master yet.....???

"For this reason the gentleman 1. will employ a man on a distant mission and observe his degree of loyalty, 2. will employ him close at hand and observe his degree of respect. 3. He will hand him troublesome affairs and observe how well he manages them, 4. will suddenly ask his advice and observe how wisely he answers. 5. will give him a task in a timely manner and observe his promptness as promised, 6. turn over funds to him and see with what benevolence he dispenses them, 7. inform him of the danger he is in and note how faithful he is to his duties. 8. He will get him drunk with wine and observe how well he handles himself, 9. place him in mixed company and see what effect beauty has upon him. By applying these nine tests, you may determine who is the unworthy man." 所以君子 1.让他到远处做事考验他的忠诚， 2. 让他在近处做事考验他的恭敬， 3. 给他烦杂的任务考验他的能力， 4. 向他突然提出问题考验他的心智， 5. 急与之期而观其信(classic) 6. 把钱财委托他考验他的清廉， 7. 告诉他危险考验他的节操。 8. 让他酒醉看他的仪则， 9. 混杂相处而看他的面色。 九种征验做到，不肖的人就可看得出来了。” These social behaviors are to be observed and expected from a trustworthy person.

Chapter 33 列御寇 ( LIEH YU-K'OU) You sure didn't! The verse is in Chapter Thirty-three. No wonder I couldn't find it.

What are the particular chapters of Chuang Tze that you had in mind?

No foundations.

1. I think alcohol has marked more impact in all cultures. It effects the mind more than the body, except the liver. Unfortunately, opium has a tendency of weaken the body more than the mind. It is worse in having a weak body than a weak mind. 2. In Chapter 12, the colors you are referring to are the true colors which was used metaphorically by Loa Tze. 五色令人目盲 The five colors may blind one's eyes. It was to advise people not to be indulged to live in a colorful life style. All the extravagant tastes can blind one's eyes which will not see the side of poverty. This idea of 色 might have been borrowed from here to create their own definitions by the various religious groups.

Your opinion is highly respected. Perhaps, there are some infections. Even, the westerners had attempted to color Taoist thought with Christianity. However, I wouldn't discount all interpretive materials because there is quite a number of knowledgeable native scholars had made some valuable factual contributions. IMO Those contributions do have merits which lead to the true meaning of the classics. At least, some of them are the closest.

The English is quite different from the original poem. Where did you get this translation from? Perhaps, I'll add in the missing words! 1. 饮酒不醉是英豪， 2. 恋色不迷最为高； 3. 不义之财不可取， 4. 有气不生气自消。 1. To imbibe without intoxication is heroic, 2. Engaging in sex but not indulged is superior, 3. It is wise not to be rapacious for filthy lucre, 4. Rage without expressing anger will remain calm. Is that plausible now?

Yes, alcohol within limits is fine for those who are only a partial Quanzhen Tao practitioner. The Quanzhen Taoists live an austere life, wealth is insignificant to them. The necessity for survival is only required to be at minimal. Btw The full time Quanzhen Taoists are abide by the four cardinal vices with no exception. A partial practitioner of Quanzhen Tao will not be considered to be a 真人. Partial practitioner of Quanzhen Tao means that a person can be married, have money and can drink within limits but still practice the of principles of Quanzhen Tao. This group of Taoists is called the "正一派". I think you had answered your own question about the mind purification by the above quote.

Gladly! As I had said many times before, “Chi 氣” has multiple meanings and its application of usage. If someone only know one definition, then one will have trouble interpreting Chinese. 氣(chi): air; gas; energy; function of the internal organs(in TCM); breathing(in Chi Kung). The idea for 氣 to be meant "temperament" was from the sign of being angry of a person. When a person gets mad or upset, the person breathes heavily which exchanges lots of air through the body. The Chinese called that "生氣" which means "angry". In regarding to 色, in order to make some good sense out of it, one need to be familiar with the language and understand the usage in the different Chinese religions. 色 has its basic linguistic meaning and esoteric meanings for different religions 1. The linguistic definition in the ordinary daily life, it means color. 2. As an esoteric term for a Taoist, 色 has something to do with getting one sexually aroused, such as a woman, porno, thoughts, desire, or anything that trigger the libido of a person. 3. To a Buddhist, 色 was referred as the materialistic world. If one has been cultivated to keep the four cardinal vices out of one's life, then it was considered to be that the mind has been purified. PS... If one translates 色 as "color" and 氣 as "energy", probably, it wouldn't make any sense for a Taoist to think that they are part of the four cardinal vices.

TTC 43 3. 無 有 入 無 間 ， 3. Formless(Tao) enters non-space.

氣(temperament) agitates the mind. Note: It is time to learn a new meaning of Chi.

直通天庭 Straight through to heaven

There is a sign says: "Photo taken is forbidden" in front the tree by the red door..

生氣, anger, may cause someone to be violent. Of course, this will not happen to a highly cultivated Taoist.

Not really!

Nice try, MH.... Sorry! A sage has no mercy and treats all as straws. As soon one had committed to be a Taoist, one's cultivation starts on day one. There is no canon should/will be broken. Another words, there is no disciplinary action was required for a Taoist.

Why is 氣 is temperament here. Actually, it is shot for the compound characters 生氣 for "angry". Literally, it means "generate hot air". Here is the logic, when people get upset they generate lots of heat and sweat. It seams like steamy hot air. In the Chinese logic, they've used that for the description for someone who was being "angry". In addition, one might say it generate lots of body energy. It is because when one gets upset does built up lots of energy and get ready to fight someone. However, the former was the original thought about 生氣(angry) and the latter might be an after thought.

In our daily life, 酒色財氣 are the four major culprits with the greatest temptation which cause the most disturbance to the mind. 酒(alcohol) upsets the mind 色(libido) titillates the mind 財(wealth) entices the mind 氣(temperament) agitates the mind. The combination of 酒(alcohol), 色(libido), and 氣(temperament) are harmful to the mind as well as to the body. Especially, the 色(libido) is the worse criteria which can effect the health of the body tremendously. The sexual drive was triggered, it make cause a male to be over masturbated which is very harmful to the body and mind. Over masturbation may cause a person to be lackadaisical, lack of interest in life and detach oneself from social environment. Let's look at 氣(temperament). I think most people do recognize this character which known as "Chi" whit the meaning as "energy"; but why it has the meaning of "temperament" here? Well, the character is the most confusing character in the Chinese language due to its multiple definitions. Even the natives are having problems with it. Most of the time, they really don't know what it meant exactly when they say it. The reason they say it is because they were just repeating what they were told without knowing its actual meaning. It is worse in the west, its only known definition is "energy". It may cause a lots of confusion and misinterpretations when the character was used solely with one definition.

Very good. Thank you for leading the discussion in to the progress of this thread. That was exactly what I had in mind to go into the four cardinal vices. Please let me answer your intelligent questions one by one! In regarding to the self-cultivation of civility(禮) and the essence of the Way(道), there is a fallacy in the thinking for most people about Tao(道) in this regard. The reason I have said that is because there is a distinctive difference about Tao(道) between Confucius and Lao Tze. Confucian's Tao(道) is about the morality of human conduct which one has the goal tend to be a sage(聖人); and Lao Tze's Tao is about the Law of Nature. In Taoist religious practice(only), a Taoist has a goal to preserve one's life by integrating with Nature and become a True Person(真人). Hence, the term 聖人(sage) is a term was applied to Confucians; and the term 真人(True Person) is esoteric for a Taoist. In regarding to Post #29: Progress in relation to what? In general, it was meant that is the progress of the development of a human society. In regarding to Post #71: Is this similar to the religious “self-cultivation” of the Catholic priest to purify himself of sin? No, the self-cultivation of a Taoist is not about sin but to purify the body and mind without any contamination. For the body is like not having any bad habits or substance; and for the mind to be healthy is like having good logic with good reasoning and keep the fallacies aside. As a result, to purify the sins maybe just a hidden agenda which came with the package. Thus a Taoist do not consider any notion about sin other than just the bad habits which need to be eliminated. What is the rational foundation for the four cardinal vices (酒色財氣)? This requires a separate post for a more thorough and explicit explanation. Btw I have intended to do so, next, before you come about with your valuable questions.

Okay, thank you for your clarification.

The whole confusion was really started with the name of the Taoist sect that was improperly named(名不正言不順). This is the worse case that an organization would want it to happen.

Sorry, MH. For the health of this thread, I must do what I have to. This is part of the DCXM. We must not have any contaminants to be dealt with for now. You will see what I mean when I go over the four taboos of the Taoist canon. Impatient and prejudicial thinking are very poor mental health for the cultivation of Xing Kung.

Can you tell me what do you mean by lit up? What were/are you practicing to get you up to this point?

Yes, you are correct. However, an action potential is an electrical impulse. Let's not get too technical about it. If we are trying to talk about electricity in the body, an "action potential" is the closest to it. Otherwise, where can the electricity be accounted for?