ChiDragon

Did anyone mention breathing? He could stand there all day and look like a fool without going into the ultimate method of breathing(UMB).

FYI Some might think that Zhan Zhuang is an advance level in Kung Fu. However, Zhan Zhuang is lowest level in Kung Fu practice. It was recommended to start with ZZ before anything else in Kung Fu.

Haha, the good old days for me was 60 years ago. I'll reserve my comments on your thoughts on ZZ. Peace!

No no no! You got it backward. The training of Jin was not from these gesture. The Jin in the body was developed from the diligent practice of Taiji. Why do you think that Taiji practitioners practice everyday? It was to condition the body to develop the Jin in the body. Jin is nothing but the increased strength of the body.

The eight methods of Fajin using different parts of the body indicated as follows: 1. 掤(peng) : Using one forearm sideways to push out and upward 2. 捋(lu) : Using the palms moving laterally 3. 挤(ji) : Using the back of the hands pushing forward 4. 按(an) : Using both the palms and arms in the up position with the upper torso moving forward, using the waist as leverage. 5. 采(ca) : Using the fingers holding the wrist and the elbow of the opponent moving downward. 6. 挒(lie) : Using both forearms to blocking the incoming force. 7. 肘(zhou) : Using the elbow to push the opponent when close in contact 8. 靠(kao) : Using the shoulder to push the opponent away By now, we all know what is Peng. It is a method of Fajin. See the definition #1 above. If the Jin was issued with the method of Peng(掤), then, it was described as Peng Jin(掤勁). For the same token, if Kao Jin (靠勁) was mentioned, then, it was understood that Jin was issued by the shoulder. Since 挒(lie) is using the forearm to Fajin, then, 挒(lie) may be correlated to 掤(peng) by definition.

In the good old days. A Chinese father used to discipline his son by making him do Zhan Zhuang. It is because the father knew it was good for the health of the son. BTW Most Kung Fu masters always have their students start with ZZ before teaching any forms of martial art. It is because that is the fundamental training to condition the body to take any future punishment.

This is how a beginner does. There is no such thing as not for beginners. Otherwise, where would a beginner start to do something.

@steve I had edited. In case you have missed. Redundant : I can't delete this post. MOD please delete.Thanks!

Again, you are thinking about push-hand is pushing hand hard. Even though there are lots of pushing action, but this is not the real method of push-hand. In real push-hand, there should be an initiated opposing force before one can react to it. What we see here is someone standing in a most vulnerable position that anyone can push him aside. It requires no special technique for the performer in to accomplish his demo. I do sense that the performer has Jin in him and the ability to Fajin. However, I don't see that the demo had shown the full scale of the push-hand method.

Thank you, Steve. I believe you had indicated, here, is the application in combination of the multi Fajin methods. However, each method should be a stand alone posture.

@steve I had edited. In case you have missed.

Ofc it's not. At least, the consistency in the language is always there.

@steve I don't know can see going into this site. If you do, please look at: @ 00:17 掤 resembles the gesture of 野馬分鬃. It is using the hand. @00:30 挒 is using the hand to Fajin. @00:35 is the gesture of 靠. It is only using the shoulder. Yes, I agree that 掤 and 挒 are using one hand to Fajin but not 靠. This is, only, my argument no more or less. Please don't say more to confuse the issue.

How in the world we got this into the OP?

I don't know have you done any investigation. Anyway, 靠 is done with the shoulder, not with the hands. I am not here arguing what is not or what not. I am only describing the methods of Fajin. The methods，only the methods known and defined by the Chinese masters. However, what others think is not my concern. There are too many fallacies out there, I can't argue with everyone to say what is right or wrong?

I wouldn't say never. I have done it with an expert who gave me some guidance. I had gone to some push-hand group. However, I couldn't blend in with them. It is because when they do push-hand, they meant push hands and pushing real hard. That was not how I was taught by my Taiji teacher. BTW Based on your words, I believe that you know what you are doing.

I am still here arguing with some old timers. Arguing with the same old things. I hope I'll never win. If I do, then, there is nothing to do here anymore.

Isn't that progress made from your practice. Now, you have developed some Jin in your body. You have a Taiji body now. Aren't you happy about that?

So, they are not actually doing tuishou, but testing each other's patience.

Never say never, it still can be done if one wants to! You can try arm wrestling with someone with equal weight or little more than you. You can Fajin with your arm and regulate your breathing. I bet you can win!

Are sure about that? Isn't that the Jin will build in your body from the diligent practice to increase your strength. It is automatically make you stronger than before. If you are able to Fajin, then, you are able to lift more weights than before.

Please read. These are the methods of Fajin. It is the description of how Jin was issued to be more effective under different circumstances. PS These are only gestures, by learning them without practicing Taiji for sometime will lead you nowhere.

Yes, I was talking about the methods of Fajin. How to use them in an application is a different discussion.

I think that is the fallacy most people thought that 掤 is an energy or strength. I have made that every clear that it is not. It is a name that was given to the method of Fajin for the posture. Ofc all the actions of the body parts are controlled by the mind. PS To be exact, 掤 is equivalent to the gesture of 野马分鬃。

Haha I knew this long time ago since day one! Yes, English explanations always contradict the Chinese version. Something always got lost in the translation. Besides, each master always tell things differently. Anyway, I am glad that you are happy of what you had been told and felt. I will stay with my non-English version of thoughts. Peace ✌🏼