ChiDragon

Quanzhen is about trying to find the truth(真) about oneself in Taoist term. However, people do not want to know the truth but kept on running farther and farther away from it. Why does it has to be putted in the proper English format to understand it.....??? It is all true, nothing but the truth. One should be able to grok its meaning by now. PS.... What really bothers me was..... Why people spent so much time in the school for the practice and still don't know what it is....???

Brain... We are still trying. I guess I'm just having one foot in one realm and the other foot in another. That is why we are having difficulty in our communication. Thank you for given me the opportunity to find my true self. I will never know if no one gives me a chance to know by pointing out the differences in our understanding. Thanks.

I'll let Nature take its course on this one.

修真: One cultivates to find one's true-self. This is the core to the Taoist religion. 真...真...真, if one knows what that means, not in English nor in Chinese but in Taoist.

Things just don't work that way. Chinese is just a strange language if one doesn't adapt their logic. I am so used to it, so, it is not so strange. The Chinese wordings are never as precise as in English. If one look into some of the usages of the characters pointing to an idea, then it is funny and strange. I see your point of view here is the complete opposit. FYI Most of my translations of the classic Chinese was done from 白话文. Otherwise, I need to go to a classic professor for the interpretation. Fortunately, nowadays, it is not hard to find the 白话文 for any classic online. What is strange to me is I have all these westerners telling me how the Chinese translation should be done and meant. The character 真 is an esoteric term that the Chinese Taoists often used throughout the Taoist religion. It can be a noun or an adjective or some other meanings compound with other characters within context. Here are some of the esoteric terms: 全真教: All True Cult. "Cult" here is not even close to the meaning of 教. 真人: At some point, a Taoist had cultivated to become a priest will call himself 真人(True Person). I don't think calling him a "Real Person" is appropriate in this case. 真心: True Heart. I don't think "Real Heart" is an appropriate translation in this case. 修真: Cultivate to find my true-self. This is the core to the Taoist religion. The Chinese Taoists like to use "真(true)" for everything as an adjective to indicate that all things are genuine and pure. If the meaning of 真 was altered to mean something else, then it would be no longer esoteric for the Chinese Taoist religion. Edited to add: Finally, most people thought they were translating from Chinese to English. However, they did not realize that they were translating an esoteric Taoist language into English rather than Chinese to English. This is exactly what is going to happen to any attempt of a translation. It is just the course of nature that people have to go through. There is no such thing as a perfect translation; and there is always something got lost in the translation. Unless, the translation was done as close as to the original idea with some awkwardness in writing. We just have to accept the fact that we cannot have it perfect both ways.

Dawei.. I think we have a problem in communication in every way. Let's not do anymore communiation. Period. Thanks.

From my point of view, this is not the case here. Since the natives have a better understanding of their own language, I will give the primary native speaker the benefit of the doubt to have the final say so. I would rather be the guest than the host.

No, sorry. I cannot agree 100%, it will sound odd either way due the sentence structure in both languages. There are lots of Chinese characters are not even translatable into another language. Let me give you two examples. 甥女 was understood it is a niece from from my mother side of the family. 姪 was understood it is a nephew from my father side of the family. In English, a niece and nephew apply to both sides of the families. It seems like have an unsolvable problem here. If we want a translation of the Chinese text by hammering it to fit the English language, then we will have something got lost in the translation. What can we do about that....???

You are talking about the native Chinese in China which are not speaking English in their daily life. Hey, I am living in the US for many years. My English may be bad but it shouldn't be as bad as them. The approach you people are taken will introduce many many errors. As a matter of fact, when I was in China I saw what's on the steps at the entrance to a restaurant, the warning was this. 小心地滑(Caution, slippery when wet); but the actual English was: Caution, land slight slide when wet. @Taomeow..... I have reservation on the comments that you had made in the above posts. It seems to me it is not too practical to discuss them at all.

It took sometime, did it......???

Is was exactly what it means to a Chinese from century to century. It has to be a Chinese to know it. When you watch Chinese movies next time, you will see the heroes are drinking rice wine with a soup bowl. Drinking one bowl after another. They were competing with each other to see who gets drunk first. The last person who gets drunk last is the big hero. That is our custom. You got that....??? There are lots of things that you know I might not know and vice versa.

Brian, I do appreciate that. Please don't worry, my 定力(Ding Li) is holding me up for not being "sentimental" despite to any adversity. Edited to add: @ baiqi.... Thanks...!!! The above statement applies to you too.

Did you read the last part of Brian's post about an English speaker translated an Italian manual into English and sounded funny. Talking about linguistics, please......!!!

I think it needs some clarification for what you are saying here. Which translator do you mean....??? The translator is a native or non-native....??? Edited to add: In this case, it sounds like it is ideally to have a native Chinese speaker to translate the Chinese into English to me.

I can see technical engineering terms have to be interpreted by experts in the field. However, for a simple daily ordinary term does not fit into this category. Anyway, It is all true now that I'm useless here. I guess I'll bow out and let you people translate it anyway you want. You are the majority; and I'm only a minority; here, and who knows little bit about Chinese. So, what the hell do I know.

Any English speaker agree with that.....??? PS...... So, you are actually saying, you rather have it mistranslated because you think that is funny. How about 打坐, "hit the seat" it sound funny in Chinese too. But it means "quiet sitting" for meditation. Why would one accept that as is......???

全真(Quan Zhen): "All True" would be a better translation rather than "Complete Perfection". 坐忘: sit and forget. This term is given in Da Zuo, 打坐, meaning quiet sitting and forget oneself to become having a state of selfless. This is why it is so important to meditate in a secluded room to avoid external distraction and disturbance.

QiGong: 氣功 Breathing method NeiGong: 內功 Enhance the function of the internal organs WaiDan: 外丹 External process using utensils in making elixir Neidan: 內丹 Internal process using the body by emulating the concept of the external process.

Vitallii..... I think the name of your Taoist sect gave you lots of trouble. According to your website, Zhendaopai(真道派) is an off shoot from Wang Chong Yang(王重陽) which was the founder of 全真教(Quan Zhen Jiao). Perhaps you should call it 全真派(Quan Zhen Pai).

The purpose of mediation is to attain a vacuous and serene state for the mind. It is to clear the mind and put it into an initialized state for better mentality and physical being. Throughout life, one had learnt many things including the truths and fallacies. When we were young we had heard lots of legendary stories and learnt lots of fairy tales forming lots of generalizations. However, it is difficult to sort out the truth from the fallacies without a cleare mind. Sometimes, without a clear mind, our bodies were uncoordinated which causing mistakes in our movements. Indeed, with the help of mediation, one can cultivate the mind to have more logical thinking and more coordination for the body movements. Holistically, the body functions better.

Since I don't see any interruption on my part, let's continue..... Emptying the mind is to put oneself in, 虛靜, vacuous and serene. It take one to, 修練, cultivate and practice. 練 is the refine process in practice to get to the end result. From the beginning of the process to the final result was said the be 修( cultivation). The learning curve from intuition during practice is enlightenment. Whenever one has accomplished 虛靜(vacuous and serene) through 修練(cultivate and practice) with proficiency, it was said to be that one has been reached the perfection in the art of meditation. Notes: Vacuous: Showing no sign of intelligence or sensitive feelings.

Interruption was only caused by those who think they are being interrupted in their own minds. If one's 定力 was strongly sat in place, then interruption does not exist. Indeed, one cannot be effected by external influences.

Learn to understand the principles in the Tao Te Ching. Let Nature take its course......

修心養性 begins with Dazuo(打坐) which known as Zazen or meditation. 修心 is to cultivate the heart(mind). Why cultivate the heart....??? The ancients once thought that the heart is the center of the human body, thus everything originates and begins with the heart. 性(xing) is the character of the body. 養性 is to keep the 性 in a pure state and not contaminated by external influences. 修心 is actually cultivating the mind by purification. In order to purify the mind, it is by emptying it all out. That is why one needs to 入室靜坐(quiet sitting within a secluded room). TBC...

I am glad that I have a challenger. It seems to me that I can understand myself better every time that I need to explain something to someone. I have noticed there are quite a few Taoists, came on board, graduated from 武當, Wudang Mountain, China. I have been exposed to many Taoist terms. I can google anything to match what you have said. However, it is not a matter of understanding but how much do I want to believe them. My practice is not an immortal approach. I rather stay healthy with some great mental power. All this talk about yin shen and yang jing is out of my reach and really not my main interest. Most people perform dazuo with different purposes to accomplish whatever their intentions were. I can only discuss my purpose and my goal of accomplishment and experience. To make the story short, it is not my interest to go into an argument about something which is beyond my beliefs.