ChiDragon

不 可 枯 坐 灰 心 Do not just dully sit and get discouraged or gave up.

Here is a simply Chinese description about Neidan. 內丹術是道家一種重要的修鍊方法，現在一般視為道家氣功（道家多稱「煉氣術」）的一種。內丹術指以「人身是一小天地」的「天人合一」、「天人相應」思想為理論，進行性命的修鍊，以人身為鼎爐，修鍊「精、氣、神」等而達成強身健體、提高人體的生命功能、延長壽命、乃至成仙、長生不老之目的。 Neidan method is an important kind of cultivation procedure for Taoists. Presently, most people are considering it is a kind of Taoist Chi Kung(Taoists referred it as a method of Chi cultivation). The Neidan method is pointing out that the body is a small universe which is the integral of heaven and human. The thought of heaven and human are corresponding with each other as their philosophy. During the course of cultivation, using the body as the cauldron, refining Jing, Chi and Shen to accomplish the invigoration of the body; to enhance the vital functions of the body, to prolong life, even to become an immortal and the goal to reach longevity. Ref: 內丹術, Neidan Shu

From a Chinese point of view, what I trying to say is that Chi Kung cultivates three things, breathing(調息), mind(調心) and body(調身). However, regulating the breath(調息) is the main ingredient among the three. The other two and the energy part are only the result from the cultivation. If people can realize that the main emphasis is on regulating the breath, then they would understand what Chi Kung is all about. You see regulating the breath, 調息, is different from just breathing. Regulating the breath involves with the movements of the abdomen. That is what Chi Kung is all about. Without the movements of the abdomen, it would be just normal breathing which is not Chi Kung.

The idea about Neidan(內丹) was coming from the idea of external elixir(外丹, Waidan). The ancient Chinese Taoists(ACT) were considered that Neidan is a higher form of Chi Kung because it is requires heavily in breathing. At this point, we must consider that the definition of Chi Kung is the ultimate method of breathing(UMB). Otherwise, the concept of Neidan in this thread would be invalid.

I had learned something from Zhuang Tze. If things are getting too complicated, then let's demystify it. Now, I will do that for Chi Kung. Let's eliminate all the generalizations that we had learned about the effects and accomplishments from Chi Kung. To make it simple, the ultimate goal of Chi Kung is to learn to breathe and send the breath deep down to abdomen. As soon one has accomplished that, it was considered that one has been reached the realm of Chi Kung. I will start a thread to demystify about Neidan to respond to effilang's comments in another thread.

For easy explanation and clarity, let's literally separate Chi Kung and Neidan for a simple and better understanding. This is a review of the universal definition of Chi Kung. Chi Kung is to learn to breathe properly. Chi Kung is to enhance the respiratory system. It is safe to say that it is a prerequisite for all martial arts. Neidan is using Chi Kung for the development and enhancement of the function of the internal organs. In other words, breathing is the first stage of Neidan. If one cannot breathe properly, one may not practice Neidan effectively.

These are the universal definitions: Pre-Heaven breathing is the umbilical breathing of a fetus in the mother womb. Post-Heaven breathing is using the lungs after birth.

谷神不死 The Spirit of the Valley never dies

Aren't we started on the wrong foot.......!!!

The attribute of the moon was compared to the Sun. It is Yin is because the Moon is passive and the Sun is active. The phase of the Moon is depending on the light source from the Sun.

This is the basic concept of Chi Kung The instruction is given in Tuna(吐吶) . The instruction of Tuna(吐吶) should be followed by the ancient Chinese Taoist concept rather than some mistranslation. So, we will get the words from the horse's mouth. PS...... This always sounds like discrimination; but, hey! to learn to truth, we must do away with the bias notion in our minds and be Wu Wei about it. PPS....... Tuna(吐吶) is an universal definition of Chi Kung(氣功). Btw Chi Kung is a modern term for Tuna(吐吶). Chi Kung is the ultimate method of breathing to aid the body to generate the internal energy.

I don't because there is not too enough oxygen for breathing.

Neidan is not an one man definition. It is universal.

The Moon is Yin and the Sun is Yang.

柔之勝剛 The softness is triumphant over hardness Water can penetrate rocks. The softness is invincible which are all the reasons.

人法地 Human follows Earth

陰 Yin 陽 Yang

I think the above needs some clarification. Is there any common factor between in both methods to the best of your understanding......??? Can you clarify this: "Qigong works with Post-Heaven Jing, Qi and Shen.".....???

Neidan is just a general term for internal elixir. Xian Tian(先天) and Hou Tian(後天) are only descriptions of the sequence of event. Xian Tian(先天) means prenatal and Hou Tian(後天) means postnatal. Indeed, there was no prenatal practice of internal elixir before birth. Then, how could there be a postnatal practice of alchemy.....!!!

hmmm......... Don't you think that the man has been electrocuted already....???

天下莫柔弱於水 There is nothing softer than water in the world

Yes, that was why "First of all, how is your breathing to begin with, like how deep can you breathe constantly without getting light-headed....???" "Constantly" is the key word, here, which means your can breathe deep to the abdomen all the time. As a beginner, you are not expected to be able to do it all the time. Anyway, focusing on the dantien still may not help you to reach the stomach more easily. You must be able to breathe down deep by practicing in your breathing but not by forcing yourself. You must do it step by step by breathing in and out at a certain point every time. The purpose is to establish a baseline and focus your breathing on that point, so you can go deeper and deeper by passing that point progressively. Eventually, your breath will reach deep down to the abdomen. At the point in time, you can perform the abdominal breathing every time and fully focused.

"How deep" means when you breathe, does your breath pass your chest deep down to the abdominal. If not, how far down do you think your breath went....???

First of all, how is your breathing to begin with, like how deep can you breathe constantly without getting light-headed....??? As a beginner, one may not be able to do diaphragmatic breathing right away. It takes time to practice before one can reach to that stage.