ChiDragon

Well, Taoism has two sides, one is philosophy and the other is religion. Taoist beliefs begin with the philosophy then religion. Thus without the basic knowledge of the philosophy, then there would be no religion. Some people only study the philosophy without involving with the religion. However, they do believe in good health, so they practice Chi Kung from the advice given from the interpretation of the philosophy. The Taoist philosophy cannot be explained in one or two words. That is why some will get caught up in those aspects and sit around arguing and debating what is what instead of actually performing the practice itself and taking something so simple and making it unnecessarily complex. "To be integrated with nature is like gently floating in a river,going wherever it takes you"...was not "to overcome nature is to change the river you're floating in. (What I mean by overcoming/defying nature is very subjective!)" In the Taoist philosophy, integrate with Nature means to blend in with Nature instead of overcome Nature nor change the river you're floating in. Instead, a Taoist will be assured that the river was not disturbed in any way and leave it the way it was before if ever possible. Taoists are naturalists which do not want to interfere with Nature but let Nature take its course. The philosophy was known as 無為(WU Wei). We had quite a few long discussions about Wu Wei, in order, for people not to misinterpret it. Most people interpreted by its superficial meaning which lead them 10,000 miles away in their understand and way off basis.

How long have you been stopped your physical and meditation practices before you get sick......????

I think you have answered my question. Without realizing the purpose of Chi Kung, but you have accomplished what Chi Kung does for you. PS..... You have made my day. You are the first person who have given me a satisfactory answer about Chi Kung, even though it was indirectly......... :)

Taoist mainly dwell on the theoretical and philosophical aspects of Taoism is to have a fully understanding of their beliefs. Having a better understanding, to begin with, will be more meaningful and appreciative to perform the practice. Understanding nature is not to master it nor overcome it but integrated with it. There are lots of people are practicing qigong/neigong by absorbing the source of energy from the universe as part of integrating with Nature.

Okay.... May I ask when you do Chi Kung, do you do lots of breathing exercise, perhaps the abdominal breathing ......???

Is this what you have been told or through your experience......??? Anyway, I was referring to during practice, posture was insignificant at the time because the joints are stiff. However, after a prolong practice the posture will correct itself. I do agree correct posture will be more effective in issuing body strength. I don't think that energy flows in the body but only generated by the body.

Here are two thread in the TTB: http://thetaobums.com/topic/26925-interpretations-of-wu-wei/ http://thetaobums.com/topic/22132-what-is-wu-wei/

Yes, now you got hooked on Wu Wei.......!!! In order to be Wu Wei, the initial intend was to be Yu Wei to get to Wu Wei. Wu Wei is a patented term of Lao Tze, so to speak. However, to be more exactly, Wu Wei is not to interfere with Nature to cause any harm. Not causing harm to Nature is Lao Tze's primary concern. Wu Wei is to keep Nature in harmony. Lao Tze thinks interrupting Nature will cause it to go off balance. Thu this is the goal of Wu Wei we are striving for instead of Yu Wei. How does Wu Wei applied in one's life....??? There are many examples almost anyone can think of. For instance, if I am forcing you to believe what I believe, then I am interfering your personal thinking. Thus I was not being Wu Wei because I have interrupted the course of your life. Yes, there are few threads about Wu Wei but it is many many pages back in the Taoist Discussion section. Let me see if I can find them....!!!

Posture is only the looks, it was the movements that have the most effect on the body. The motion will correct the body alignment due to the enhancement in loosing up the tight muscles and tendons. The movements will act like lubricant for the stiff joints which allow more flexibility for the arms and legs.

Doing the MCO is not Taoist fundamentalism. Wu Wei is. MCO is only a process for Taoists to attain a condition for a healthier body.

Yes, Wu(無) and Yu(有) are complementary to each other. So is Wu Wei(無為) and Yu Wei(有為). Wu Wei(無為): have no intention(to commit an act); let Nature take its course and be natural. Yu Wei(有為): Have an intention(to commit an act); interfere with the course of Nature which considered to be unnatural.

I was afraid that you might say that.......

Uroboros.... I am glad that you are reading ZZ as parables, not like others reading it as the TTC. It is because you are not reading it object by object nor line by line. That is the right approach to read ZZ......

MH... Can you clarify what do you by "other than its own".........???

Here is how I understand about fajin and always this way.... The former is completely true. However, the latter is not quite so. There is no special training for fajin need to be taught. After a long period of Tai Ji practice, the jin is automatic developed in the muscles and tendons without having one being realized. When the practitioner issue a force, this force is automatically issued as jin. Another words, after a long time practice of Tai Ji, any force exerted by the body is considered to be Jin. The latter was a myth. Thus Qi is not that miraculous as one's thought it was. PS.... Chneg Man Ching may not have taught fajin. However, I had read one of his books in Chinese. He had a great emphasis on fajin in his book.

After Zhuang Tze said about the Kun and Peng, then he said something about "little knowledge and big knowledge", "small year and big year". The mushroom doesn't know that there was a beginning or the end of the day. A cicada doesn't have any knowledge about the period in length of a year. It is because due to their short lifespan and the characteristic of limitation of things. Each living thing has its own characteristic and limitations. Therefore, there is a difference in their knowledge and intuition. ZZ was not really emphasized by the observation on the physical size of the living things, such in big or small nor long or shot. Actually, he was using the difference in images and the period of life experience as similes for an evaluational judgement. The characteristic of all things has more limitations than humans. Humans can move forward for advancement. However, at the time, people were only sufficed with their present moment. They didn't realize that they can pursuit another target at a higher level. Hence, he mentioned the gigantic Peng bird that no one has ever heard of to enlighten people that there are even more profound and higher target to be aimed for. Zhuang Tze was not really emphasizing that something small is more inferior than something big. In ZZ's thinking about "wander with complete freedom" with all things integrated as a whole, then how can he said there is a difference in big and small....???

Yes, I am in preparation all morning..........

"Immediacy" Broader vision open mind No more narrow views

Any time is a good time, unless one really wants to restrict oneself to the traditional way.

Yes, I do agree that we may make comparisons but must not mix one thought into another to distinguish the unqinueness of each philosophy.

ZZ is a philosopher, not a biologist, thus he couldn't careless how the birds live. He was using the various sizes of the birds to illustrate his philosophy about how to broaden one's wisdom by having a wider visible and look farther ahead. In the metaphor, he was implicating that one should not be so narrow minded as the dove by just staying in one small area and don't know what else is going on around the world. He was using the Peng bird to show a big contrast about its broad vision and wisdom as compared to the narrow minded dove.

No, that would be a principle again. I'll let you know as soon as I've come across it in the near future. Edited to add.... Ahhhh...here is one that I can give you. A reason was given for the mushroom and the cicada do not see those thing as shown in red is because the short lifespan of both. PS.... This are the kind of things that we should look for in Zhuang Tze's philosophy and leave Lao Tze's stuff out.

It is more being a reason than a principle.

The "Tao/tao" are different between Lao Tze and Zhuang Tze. Please notice there is a difference how Tao was spelled. There are a "Tao" and a "tao". The "Tao" was in Lao Tze's mind while "tao" was in Zhuang Tze's. Lao Tze's Tao, sometimes, is either visible(Yu) or invisible(Wu). Sometimes, Tao is "tao" which is a principle. Zhuang Tze's "tao" is a reason which explains why are things happening that way.

Wu/ Yu is not ZZ's concern anymore. At this point in time, Wu/ Yu was outdated.