ChiDragon

Zhuang Tze likes to exaggerate by thinking himself as a gigantic fish. A big fish should not get stuck under water in the Northern Ocean without or some limited knowledge. In order to broaden his wisdom, he wants to turn into a gigantic bird. So, he can fly high high above and look down on earth to see things in a wider view. However, that was not all, by looking at one side of the world was not enough. He must travel far away to go to the other side(Southern Ocean) to broaden one's wisdom. In Chapter One, metaphorically, Zhuang Tze was suggesting that one must get oneself educated. One's narrow view should be broaden to have a wider vision. One must get on top and get to the bottom of the matter and see the whole picture. Furthermore, one mustn't blind oneself by just looking at one side of the story. One must step over to the other side, with an open mind, to listen to the opposing view. Thus it would be wise for an intelligent person to take all matters into consideration prior reaching a final conclusion. PS..... The difference in approach: Zhuang Tze's approach was to let one experience the experience; and Lao Tze tells one his experience.

Hehehehe...... Have you noticed that I have a new signature..........???

Not yet, let's wait six months. Chapter One still has a long way to go yet.

It is more like tolerance than acceptance; tolerance does not has to be approved but acceptance has a commitment of tolerance.

Uroboros.... Please continue thinking that you are right. So far, your interpretation is most accurate and on the right track. Keep your own thoughts if you think you are right and don't get distracted by anyone. When for my post, then, you will realize how correct you are if I get an OK form rene.......

Yes, that is why tolerance is the highest realm in cultivation....!!!

By koan, what does it mean.......???

hehehe............we all can speak and ask but we can wait also.......!!!

The relativity of all things was the authenticity in Chapter Two of the TTC, Why do you think ZZ want to repeat it again....??? Don't you think he was using it to illustrate something else....??? What do you think about Uroboros's post.....???

Why did you let it go, instead of continuing for life.....???

How did it help you in Neigong; like what kind of improvement to your physical being....???

Sorry, may I ask what have you accomplished with that in your own practice......???

malikshreds...... Please answer the question in your own words if you can. Citing somebody else words may not be all of your saying. Thanks.

Anyway....we can start here: Space infinite Chapter 1, Section 5 Why does ZZ start to think everything is so big, so high and so far way.......??? What was he tried to convey.......???

No, I still have the Received TTC to rely on for the comparison of any codex........ I don't take a legend to go into a heated debate. Perhaps only for honorable mention.

Lao Tze is a legend, so is the TTC but the philosophy is there. Does anybody care where it is right now....??? However, we are still looking for the original; but for now, any codex will do for evaluation.

Interpretations of metaphors in classics are always based on logical assumption. No........ ??? We can't treat it like a modern language of any kind, you know.

Yes, he did mention the TTC many times. If you really understand ZZ, spoken of Lao Tze was his way of mentioning the TTC indirectly.....

I just want to add to the list: encompass.

No, I am not judging the book by its cover. I am just having some pre-knowledge about the book assuming we are not reading the book the first time. Yes, it is only a test for CHAPTER ONE, I think the test had failed already........

hi, rene.... Thanks....!!! In that case, the title of the thread need to be changed to read "General discussion for the philosophy of Zhuang Tze". The reason I said that is because we need to have something in mind; so we will know what we are after without going off course too much. We must have an aim to stay within scope. The title was referring to Chapter One, I see people are citing different chapter already. How can we keep track of all these while people are jumping allover with our thoughts.

Sorry, I am late. To begin with Zhuang Tze, I would keep in mind that ZT likes to deal with the matter of reasoning rather than the matter of principles as LaoTze does. In ZT parables, he always state his reasons to make his point across with examples. As oppose to Lao Tze, he always state the principles related to Nature to begin with; then, drops down to the principles on earth for human to follow. Hence, Lao Tze sets up rules for people to follow while ZT gives reasons for people to perceive. That is the difference in the Tao approach between the two philosophers. PS..... I see people are jumping allover, in the discussion, without relating thought to Chapter 1. It would be advisable to have a more meaningful and productive discussion by staying within the scope of the subject matter by dealing one chapter, at a time, as intended. Don't you think.....??? We can discuss each verse intensively, instead come to a conclusion about his philosophy so soon, to see what was the reason behind the statements made by Zhuang Tze.

WOW...!!! That was a very humble statement to an oriental..........!!! PS.... Even though I didn't know what the real intend was......!!!

Yes, he had given me a tremendous influence. Find the truth; keep and defend it.

Sorry, there was no quote from Zhuang Tze because he only writes parables. To understand what he was saying is straightly going through all the metaphors in his parables to draw to a conclusion by intuition or grokking. PS...... Actually, I had learned most of Zhuang Tze's philosophy from the interpretations of the knowledgeable native scholars. The quote was from their studies.