ChiDragon

Let's use Chapter 1 to look do a contextual test for 恆 or 恒(heng). We have established that Chapter 51 is used as an adverb: 常(chang). It is the closest meaning for 恒(heng). However, 恒(heng) is an adverb and 常(chang) is an adjective. Chapter 51 is used as an adverb: 常(chang) adj: everlasting; long lasting; constant; permanent; eternal 恒(heng) adv : always; forever; evermore; eternally. 恒(heng) is a character to express time. The MWD Version of Chapter One used 恒(heng): MWD: 1. 道可道，非恒道。 Possible translations: 1. Tao that can be spoken is not the always Tao. 2. Tao that can be spoken is not the forever Tao. 3. Tao that can be spoken is not the evermore Tao. 4. Tao that can be spoken is not the eternally Tao. The Received Version of Chapter One used 常(chang): RecV: 1. 道可道，非常道。 Possible translation: 1. Tao that can be spoken is not the everlasting Tao. 2. Tao that can be spoken is not the long lasting Tao. 3. Tao that can be spoken is not the constant Tao. 4. Tao that can be spoken is not the permanent Tao. 5. Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao. As I working on the definitions, I have just noticed that the Received Version did not restore, 常(chang), back to the original character 恒(heng) which was used in the MWD versions. Therefore, I have to come to a conclusion that, 恒(heng) was use as an adjective to begin with; ever though 恒(heng) is an adverb. It seems to me the modern native scholars had discovered that; it's why the character 恒(heng) was not restored to its original place. Since the classic does not have any grammars, then the two characters are interchangeable. Especially, there was no other choice but to use 常(chang) for "heng". Hence, in the translation above, line 5 is the best translation. 5. Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao. IMO This line is implicating that Lao Tze had an assumption that Tao is eternal to begin with. In modern Chinese, people are using the character 常(chang) to mean as "always"; and 恒(heng) as "eternal" as I had been saying in the above posts. Indeed, it is bit confusing. I guess people do make change in the thoughts as the time moves. As a matter of fact, from the local Cantonese radio station, I have noticed that the pronunciation of some characters have been changed. 5. 故常無，欲以觀其妙。 6. 常有，欲以觀其徼。 5. Hence, when Tao is always invisible, one would grok its quale. 6. When Tao is always visible, one would observe its boundary. Lines 5 1nd 6 has a good indication that 常(chang) was used to mean as "always"

Thank you for bring this up, I almost missed your post. 能反其所生，故未有形，謂之真人。 If one can return to pre-birth, and no form yet, it was called Zhanren(a real person). It sounds like a premature fetus to me. "余聞上古有真人者，提挈天地，把握陰陽，呼吸精氣，獨立守神，肌肉若一，故能壽敝天地，旡有終時，此其道生。" Here is the English: I heard those who were Zhanren in the prehistoric time, hold onto heaven and earth, grasp the concept of yin-yang, breathe the essential elements, stand alone guarding the soul, muscles are integrated as one. Therefore, one can out live heaven and earth(rather than to get the longevity of Heaven and Earth). There is no end. This is what is called life. Here is how I interpret it. 1. 獨立守神(stand alone guarding the soul) I think "stand alone guarding the soul" has given us the implication of celibacy. 2. 呼吸精氣(breathe the essential elements) Breathing may also implies absorb the essential foods as diet. 3. The is no such thing, IMO, as modern or ancient Chi Kung. Chi Kung is Chi Kung. I had convinced that all the demos of Chi Kung had mentioned breathe in and breathe out, inhale and exhale. Then, followed with the movements to gather the chi around us. Are we paying too much attention to the hand movements for gathering the universal chi to the low dan tian, while we are under the sublimation of breathing by the narrator....??? However, if we reverse our thoughts by putting the emphasis on the breathing while under the sublimation to concentrate on the body movements. Would that have had helped us to bring to a conclusion which breathing is really the function of Chi Kung rather than body movements. If one think about it, one can breathe without the body movements; but we cannot just do the movements without the breathing. So, which is more important...??? May we come to a conclusion that chi kung is the ultimate method of breathing. The classic writings are so esoteric and it's hard to grasp. Please correct me on my translation if I have made a mistake. Thanks.

I thank you for your inspiration....!!!

MWD-A MWD A & B Good luck with this....!!!

Bing

Summary for the usage of " 常, chang"..... Chapters 16 and 52 are used as a noun: 常(chang): routine Chapter 55 is used as a noun: 常(chang): developmental routine Chapter 51 is used as an adverb: 常(chang): always, forever 恆 or 恒(heng): eternal; constant; permanent, long lasting; It seems that the character 常(chang), which has the similar meaning as in Chapter 51, is the closest meaning for 恒(heng). Hence, we may come to the conclusion that the ancient scholars were forced to use 常(chang) for the substitution for 恒(heng). However, we'll do some contextual tests to see if that was a valid conclusion.

Chapter 55 11.知和曰常。 12.知常曰明。 11. Knowing it's in harmony was said to be in the normal development. 12. Knowing it's normal development was said to be profound. In this chapter, 常(chang) was used as a noun.

Chapter 52 15.無遺身殃。 16.是為習常。 15. To keep one out of trouble, 16. It was considered to be following the normal routine. In this chapter, 常(chang) is after a verb(習, practice), thus "chang" is used as a noun.

No "恒, hengs" yet. This is one of the chapters that "常, chang" was used originally. I need to go over the similar chapters to show how "chang" can be used to substitute for "heng". Eventually, "chang" will be used to have the meaning of "eternal". There are quite of few chapters will be involved.

Chapter 16 1. 致虛極 2. 守靜篤。 3. 萬物並作， 4. 吾以觀復。 5. 夫物芸芸 6. 各復歸其根。 7. 歸根曰靜， 8. 是曰復命； 9. 復命曰常， 10. 知常曰明。 11. 不知常， 12. 妄作凶。 13. 知常容， 14. 容乃公， 15. 公乃全， 16. 全乃天， 17. 天乃道， 18. 道乃久， 19. 沒身不殆。 Chapter 16 1. Reaching vacuousness to its extremity, 2. Maintaining stillness ultimately. 3. All things are being vitalized, 4. I observed that they are reciprocating. 5. Therefore, all things are flourishing, 6. Each returns to its root, 7. Returns to its root means stillness. 8. Stillness means returns to its essential. 9. Returns to essential is called the basic routine. 10. Knowing the routine is called comprehension. 11. Not knowing the basic routine, 12. Will act rashly become chaotic. 13. Knowing the basic routine is encompassing. 14. Encompassing will serve with justice. 15. Justice will be impartial. 16. Impartial will be natural. 17. Natural will be in accord with Tao. 18. Then, Tao will be eternal, 19. And the eternal Tao will be exempted from all danger. In this Chapter, the 常, chang, is used after a verb(call, know), thus it becomes a noun. 常(chang) was understood as a compound term..... 常規: frequent routine; normal routine; common routine In the Chinese language, it is customary to use first character to represent the thought of the compound term. However, the meaning has to be determined from context for the correct term. Another words, it is equivalent to the abbreviation in English.

oh! I see that's what you think. Actually, "heng" is to "live long" is not the philosophy of both Lao Tze and Chuang Tze. The character was just a regular character just like others. It was brought to our attention was because, sometimes, in history it has to substituted with another character to respect the ruler at the time. I didn't see any notions that Lao Tze or Chuang Tze had mentioned for humans to live "long". In the story about the death of Chuang Tze's wife, I think he was suggesting to "live short" and due away with the torment of life. In Lao Tze's thinking was keep the body in good health, so, one can take good care of others. I guess keeping good health will make one live longer but not eternal. PS.... A note to tech support, I cannot jump out the "quote window" to go below it. Would someone please rectify the situation. Thanks.

Yes, exactly. After all this years, I am used to reading the classic Tao Te Ching. You see why we are having a communication difficulty, it is because of the linguistic cultural difference. By reading the statement #1, that is exactly what Loa Tze said was understood in my mind("When Tao is always visible ..." because only the manifest is visible.) It is also something that the westerners are not familiar with the Chinese classic. There are lots of ideas were written metaphorically. The most common thing that the westerners do was trying to interpret the superficial meaning of the characters instead of their contextual meaning. The westerners like to say things precisely, as they appear to be, to avoid leaving anything out for consistency. Thus the statement #2 is exactly what it is as in statement #1 but more precise. Thus there was no mantle conversion which need to be done in the mind of the reader. PS..... I think you are doing a damn good job in communicating with me. Fortunately, I am glad that, at least, one person gives me less headache.......

Good, now, we have gone a long way. Finally, we have reached a conclusion that Tao is eternal, cannot be seen and it had no beginning or ending. A. The next question is can we observe the boundary of Tao...??? IMO Yes, sure, Tao has boundaries. We can, only, observe its boundary by the manifest aspects of all things again. All things are created by Tao from a beginning to the end, from birth to death. Tao let all living things to have a reproduction system, so, they can go through a recycle process for their offspring. Thus there is a beginning and ending in each cycle of regeneration. The eternal Tao has a limit in its creation which cannot make all things eternal like Tao itself. In Lines 5 and 6 of Chapter One, Lao Tze points out that Tao has boundaries(徼). 5. 故常無，欲以觀其妙。 6. 常有，欲以觀其徼。 5. Hence, when Tao is always invisible, one would grok its quale. 6. When Tao is always visible, one would observe its boundary. B. I cannot see Chi but I can feel Chi. C. Of course, I can see space. Otherwise, I will not see the clouds, in between me and the sky.

Again, you are making the same mistake by breaking down the character to radicals. In classic, 夫 means "therefore" if put in front of a phrase. BTW You will not find this definition in the modern non-Chinese dictionary. Again, you cannot learn this character on your own without additional help. It took me months to research this character to come to this conclusion. One didn't know this definition; but it doesn't mean it is not. BTW The character doesn't use in this manner, anymore, in the modern Chinese language.

The definitions for 常(chang) as a noun are as follow.... Chapter 16, 52, and 55: 常(chang): a normal routine. Break time, TBC.....

ME.... Yes, it did. In classic, it was written in metaphor. That is the fun part about reading the classic; it is just like a riddle. You said, sometime ago, that you want to learn how to read classic. Now, it's your chance.

So, you did understand the hidden message of Chapter 50. Nice, that makes me feel good that the translation went through....

Look who's talking....... PS....... In that case, it would be interesting to look into "heng and chang", scholarly, with a new thread.

No, the manifest aspects of Tao are only making all the myriad things visible which indicate that Tao does exist. We can only observe the boundary of Tao. We can only be spoken of Tao but not seen. Thus Tao is always invisible. Do you know what Tao look like....???

Chapter 50 Translation in terse English: 1. From birth to death, 2. Those who lived longer are three out of ten, 3. Those who die sooner are three out of ten, 4. Some of the people could have lived longer, 5. But they choose to run toward death, 6. Also, three out of ten. 7. Then, why so? 8. It was due to their extravagant way of life style. 9. I heard one who knows how to preserve life, 10.Walking on land will not meet a rhinoceros or a tiger. 11.Enlisted man will not be harmed by weapons. 12.Rhinoceros has no chance to thrust its horn. 13.Tiger has no chance to utilize its claws. 14.Weapon have no chance to cut with its sharpen edge. 15.Then, why so? 16.Because one has not entered a fatal environment.

Yes, I can say that Tao is not visible.

A modifier or adjective is, normally, in front of a noun. In this case, 恒道(heng Tao), heng(eternal) is in front of "Tao" which makes Tao eternal or the eternal Tao.

19 heng(恒) and 6 chang(常) in the two pages Tao Te Ching reflects both the MWD-A and MWD-B If you are using Firefox, you can go to View/Find and copy the character into the Find window. Then click "Highlight all". Start counting but ignore the first two for both characters. It is because they part of the explanation.

Description of LU11

I have posted this copy somewhere, before, showing all the changes and corrections were made to the Tao Te Ching. However, pinyin is not very convincing. It would probably make it more confusing. FYI Both characters "heng" and "chang"were used in the TTC at the time. There were more "heng" than "chang". Later, all of the "heng" were changed to "chang" because of the name of the ruler.