ChiDragon

Please comment on my latest translation of Chapter One....!!! 1. 道可道，非恒道。 2. 名可名，非恒名。 3. 無，名天地之始。 4. 有，名萬物之母。 5. 故恒無，欲以觀其妙。 6. 恒有，欲以觀其徼。 7. 此兩者同出而異名， 8. 同謂之玄。玄之又玄， 9. 眾妙之門。 Translation. 1. Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao. 2. A name that can be named is not an eternal name. 3. Invisible, it was named as the origin of heaven and earth. 4. Visible, it was named as the mother of all things. 5. Hence, when Tao is always invisible, one would grok its quale. 6. When Tao is always visible, one would observe its boundary. 7. These two come from one origin but differ in name, 8. Both are regarded as profound. Profound and more profound, 9. The gate of all changes. Note: The dyad of 無(Wu) and 有(You) were used throughout the Tao Te Ching by Lao Tze. It was his cleverness and unique style in using these two character revealing that he is one of a kind. BTW The Tao Te Ching was written in first person. So far, there is no one has the wisdom which is comparable to his.

You bring everything out of context as usual.

He can ask me too........

Emptiness

Nobody is really putting a label on anybody. It was only a convenience for the sake of discussion. It is just like Lao Tze was reluctantly called Tao as "Tao" for the purpose of identification....

estuary.... As you can see, that there are so many discrepancies and in consistences. Now, it's up to you to reach your own conclusion. However, it is good to know that we do have three members are in agreement. There is another member here do agree with us, in the past, on the same subject. However, he indicated that he was fed up with the disharmony with other members in the forum and declined to post much. Thus his identity shall not be disclosed. In conclusion, there are really four of us, here, in consistence with your OP. BTW "Horse stance" is another name for Zhan Zhuang.

I believe "Profound" is a better translation for 玄(xuan2) than "Mystery".

exhale

Inhale

That's all I could say is that you had found a most competent teacher which tells you no more or less. Why make things more complicated than it was unnecessary....!!! @ Friend..............

That is the scary part. He will try to please Westerners by allowing them to have deviations. Perhaps he didn't want to loose a single student by letting the students to dictate what he should teach them. I am getting to realize that why each westerner has a different version of the story for the same style.

Even though you didn't ejaculate, but you did consume energy. You were drained for playing soccer today because you did not let yourself to recuperate. BTW Playing soccer was equivalent to make it worse just like you having more sex again, today, without ejaculation.

Good for you...!!! I am glad that you didn't miss out......

Did you know that having sex burns calories.....??? Doesn't that give you an implication that you are burning up your energy regardless you are promiscuity or not....??? However, just enjoy what was given to you. Don't do it too often in too many days in a roll. Let your body to recuperate and replenish your energy....

In the earlier versions of the Tao Te Ching such as the MWD-A, MWD-B and GD, both characters 常(chang) and 恒(heng) were used. Lao Tze was using 恒(heng), most often, as a modifier; and 常(chang) as a Noun. However, due to flexibility and unrestricted grammatical usage of the characters. There are some characters can be used as either a noun or adjective or even a verb. Even though synonyms were used for substitutions, the characters were changed but the original idea does not. As in this case, when I first read 『常道』, chang Tao, in Chapter One, it is always meant "eternal Tao" in my mind. I am pretty sure that the initial change from "heng' to "chang", for the above reason, was still convey the same original idea in the mind of the scholars. BTW The uniqueness in the Chinese classic was using a character or a few to signify an idea. Hence, the recognition of the original idea being conveyed is more significant than paying more attention to the semantics. It would be a big mistake for the modern scholars and wast of effort, sometimes, if they are interpreting classic by looking too deeply into semantics. Of course, this is only my personal opinion.

Before going into deep practice of any method, at least, one should know what is the purpose and what to expect to be accomplished. Thus knowing the principle in advance, one will be more appreciative and effective in doing the practice.

You have my deepest admiration...!!!

Yes, there is a transcendent goal for Taoism(religion wise). Let's look at the meanings of "True Man/Zhenren" and "Immortal". True hu(man), Zhenren(真人) and immortal: Zhenren(真人) is a real person. What is a real person...??? Well, a real person is always alive and breathing. Now, is a dead body a person....??? According to the given definition, a dead body is not a person. Then, the ultimate goal of a Taoist is to stay in longevity, as long as it can be, to be a Zhenren. Thus the transcendent goal of a Taoist is to be Zhenren, then an immortal. Please keep in mind, a Zhenren is only a real person but not an immortal yet. A Zhenren can be promoted to an immortal only by cultivation to a point that he/she doesn't require to breathe. PS..... The above is only my understanding from the mythology of the Chinese Taoist religion.

By "Yu comes from Wu" alone is just a phrase and it is really out of context without relating it back Chapter One. Chapter One defines Wu for Tao when Tao is in the invisible state; and Yu is when Tao is in the visible state. Therefore, we may justify to conclude that the "visible Tao" came from the initial invisible state of Tao by saying that "Yu comes from Wu".

I think whoever says "constant" Tao, in English, for "eternal" Tao is as guilty as, in Chinese, by saying "Chang(常)" Tao for "Heng(恒 or 恆)" Tao.

I think if you read it carefully, you'll find that the article has identified a few critical points about the difference in the meanings of both characters as indicated in red. 三、 《老子》對「恒」「常」字使用不同 劉笑敢先生曾考察說： 「王弼本中第十九章(筆者案：『第』字誤植，當為十九章)中有二十八個『常』。......但是，帛書本多用『恆』字，在第十九章(筆者案： 『第』字誤植，當為十九章)中用到二十九處『恆』，而『常』就僅在兩章中用到三處。竹簡本中則『常』字一見，『恆』字四見(筆者案：似有誤，應為六見)。今本用『常』是避漢文帝劉恆之諱，其結果是我們看不到『常』與『恆』的區別。」 沈善增先生也說： 「從帛書甲本可知，《老子》古本原是既有『恒』又有『常』的，儘管『恒』較多而『常』較少，但『恒』『常』不同義。漢初為避漢文帝劉恒之諱，把《老子》中的『恒』都改成了『常』，這樣，『恒』『常』就混淆了。」而劉殿爵先生則曾指出作「恆」字、「常」字的重要不同處，他說： 「今本《老子》無『恆』字，只有『常』字，帛書本雖多作『恆』字，但『常』字也並非完全沒有。例如十六章：是胃復"命"常也。知常、明也。不知常，；(乙本作『芒』)"作，兇；(乙本『兇』字殘缺)知常，容；"乃公。五十二章：是胃襲(乙本『襲』字殘缺)常。從文例看，似乎『恆』字只作修飾語用，如『恆道』、『恆德』、『恆名』、『恆善救人』，而『常』字則作名詞性詞用，如『知常』、『襲常』。只有在一種句式中，『恆』、『常』互見。上引十六章：復命，常也。又二章：先後之相隨，恆也。『常』、『恆』都是單字謂語，至於語法功能上有無差異，便很難判斷了。」又，劉笑敢先生乃再將劉殿爵先生的重要發現證之竹簡本《老子》，他也得出相同結果說：「總起來看，竹簡本和帛書本對『常』與『恆』字的使用是一致的。如此說來，『常』在《老子》中主要是名詞性功能，因此可以看作是老子的名詞或概念，而『恆』主要是作修飾語，不是名詞，不能作為老子的思想概念。」準此，既然帛書本與竹簡本《老子》，皆同樣展示老子對「恆」、「常」字使用的不同，那麼原來《老子》中本作修飾語用，而在通行本中因避諱改成「常」字之處，如今可能便需改正回作「恆」字為是，不然其間的區別也只有持續被隱沒。

I know you are very fond of the article. However, in Chapter one, Heng (恆, eternal) was used in the Tao Te Ching as an adjective to describe that Tao is eternal. Even thought one of the hexagons in the Yi Jing was named as "Heng" but it has nothing to do with the TTC.

hmmm.....The latter is something new...!!! I wonder how that was done....!!!

It was only the thought that counts.....