ChiDragon

hmmm...I thought Taoists are only interested in Nei Gong......!!!

"Sometimes names are misleading." Yeah, there are really too many names. New names are created for the same old names which goes on and on. Before one understand the old name, then there goes another to confuse the original. Furthermore, the concepts are still the same.

In the Western Science(WS), they have sperm count to indicate that there is some kind of depletion but may not be the life force in particular. I think the Taoists had the same idea as indicated in red. That is why they came up with the semen retention idea for the same idea. The Jing in the body has to reproduced in order to sustain the life of the body. The idea about the post-natal jing is sustained by the pre-natal jing is coincided with Cell Respiration in the WS. The body cells are reproduced by mitosis(the split of the cells). The damaged cells are repaired by the white blood cells which the TCM was never mentioned about the repair of the jing. TCM made it sound like when the jing are gone then it is gone. In order to keep them arround, then the jing must be reserved like the idea about "semen retention". By saying that, the Cell Respiration made the concept of "semen retention" blushed. However, overall, the Taoist concept about the Jing was converted to Chi, Chi was converted to Shen, then Shen was converted to Void which did make some sense. If, only if, we are using the Western Science to explain it to have some conceptual. The Western Science has a good concept that the glucose is from the foods that we ate and react with the oxygen that we breathe. This corresponds to the TCM concept that the post-natal Jing are from the foods and the breathing of comic energy to sustain the pre-natal Jing. By this well know formula for the explanation of Cell Respiration: Glucose + Oxygen = H2O + CO2 + heat + energy. The WS formula fits perfectly for both systems. The biggest surprise was that, even though, the Taoists had no scientific knowledge at the time but they had come up with the same idea. If one has to put the concepts in the perspective, then one would write something which can be related with to above formula. Pre-natal Jing ---> post-natal Jing Jing from the foods + Jing from the air = Jing + chi + shen The formulas are not exactly the same, but the basic concepts are not too far off. In both formulas, the breathing factor do lays on the left hand and the energy on the right hand side. The foods are a must; and most importantly, the Taoist pay very close attention to the breathing. They knew the significance in breathing which will give them a tremendous body energy. The energy was known as Chi as shown in the Taoist formula. However, the term "Chi" has multi-meaning. It depends how it was used in context. The breathing method is called as "Chi Kung" in the modern days. Unfortunately, the term "Chi" is in question. Is Chi Kung a practice to cultivate energy or to cultivate a better method to improve in breathing.....??? Well, since breathing is a method to generate body energy, then breathing would be the dominant factor in both formulas. It is fair to say that "Chi Kung" is the ultimate method of breathing to the Taoists. By the linguistic definition, the character "Chi" in Chi Kung means breathing instead of "energy". Due to the difference in thinking between the West and the East, therefore, in the West, it is the ultimate method of cultivating energy. In the East, it is the ultimate method of breathing. I have to compromise as it stands for now. Unless otherwise, someone can come up with a better reason to rebut that.

*** It was for checking on you to see if you are conscientious....... :D 1) 自以為是 can be defined with one English word "dogmatic"

Here is a good reference for definition of 以為 以為 = to be under the impression 以為 used as "to be" - 人情以為田

https://sites.google.com/a/savantas.org/slaa/community/francis-li-chung-hung-li-zong-hong 1) “‘Not Laugh, Not be Tao’: The Application of Tao Te Ching in the Drawings of Yue Minjun” (「不笑不足以為道」

It is hard to find something for you. Here is a good translation for 以為 which meant "to be". http://chezcindyblog.blogspot.com/2012/08/without-laughter-tao-exit-no-where.html If there were no laughter, the Tao would not be what it is. 不笑，不足以為道。 In the mean time, I am still looking for a good reference for you. Edited to add: Here is another one. http://www.travel-silkroad.com/english/daodejing/text2.htm 第 二 课 闻 道 shang shi wen dao qin er xing zhi zhong shi wen dao ruo cun ruo 上 士 闻 [道]， 勤 而 行 之； 中 士 闻 [道]， 若 存 若 wang xia shi wen dao da xiao zhi bu xiao bu zu yi wei dao you 亡； 下 士 闻 [道]， 大 笑 之。 不 笑， 不 足 以 为 [道]。 有 jian yan zhe ming dao ruo mei jin dao ruo tui yi dao ruo dui shang 建 言 者： 明 [道] 若 昧， 进 [道] 若 退， 夷 [道] 若 堆。 上 de ruo gu da bai ruo ru guang de ruo bu zu jian de ruo yu zhi [德] 若 谷， 大 白 若 辱， 广 [德] 若 不 足， 建 [德] 若 欲, 质 zhen ruo chu da fang ruo zu da qi wan cheng da yin xi sheng da 真 若 储。 大 方 若 足，大 器 晚 成， 大 音 希 声， 大 xiang wu xing dao que wu ming fu wei dao zhe shan shi qie shan cheng 象 无 形。 道 却 无 名。 夫 唯 [道] 者， 善 始 且 善 成。 Lesson two After Hearing the Explanation of the Dao After hearing the explanation of the Dao, the best man begins to cultivate himself assiduously; the average man sometimes believes it and sometimes doubts it; the worst man bursts into laughter. If the worst man does not laugh, it can not be the Dao. He who likes to talk behind others' backs says: All who have a clear un-derstanding of the Dao are ignorant; all that make progress in their cultivation retrogress. Those who begin to cultivate themselves will meet many obstacles. Those of noble character and high prestige are judged as sunken in the abyss. Those free from any wrongdoing are subjected to indignities. The more virtuous, the more deficient one will feel. Virtues built (accumulated) by one will be regarded as but selfish desires, but they can be stored in the soul forever. Only generosity can satisfy people. The largest instrument must be fin-ished with care and precision. The greatest sound is seldom heard. The greatest image is often unseen. So the Dao is indeed too difficult to be defined by any name. One training his soul must start well and end well.

Sufidao..... You welcome...!!! I had googled this particular section. The translation of the interpretation was done by yours truly. I don't think that you can find a good translation for the complete text, not in English anyway. What you can do is post anything that you want it to be translated or interpreted. I am glad to be at your service.....

rene.... "Reject only cunning wisdom! or Reject only undesirable knowledge! or Reject only unpleasant experience!" ? I think we had brought the yin out of the Lao Tze's wisdom.

Are we under estimate Lao Tze's wisdom.....??? Or we don"t have the wisdom to interpret his wisdom.....??? In the paradoxical classic, Lao Tze never say what he meant and never meant what he said. But at the end, he always meant what he said and said what he meant. "Reject only cunning wisdom! or Reject only undesirable knowledge! or Reject only unpleasant experience!" ? PS.... As a general rule, when Lao Tze say thing in a negative logic, one must interpret it the opposite.

There is no knowledge to be forsake in this thread; let's forsake the thread......

The compound characters: 以為 will make it to mean as "to be".

That is ultimate solution was spelled out by Sun Tze in his Arts of War, but the worse solution is yet to come.

sifudao.... What you have referenced is a Taoist classic which is so esoteric. It may be ineffable to us ordinary human beings. Original: 註：夫，人神好清者，一陰一陽乃為人，人得一為大，大得一為天，超出天外，方為夫字。 Interpretation: 解：人在後天本是陰陽混合之體，此色身得一，即得先天氣，就是大，大仍是人，只是色身日壯，陰氣日消，陽氣日長，大又得一先天氣，即小天地與大天地之元始始氣合為一體，若是煉神還虛，煉虛合道，就能超出三界外，不在五行中，就是超出天外，就是夫。 Translation of the interpretation: The human body, in the post-natal phase, was the combination of the yin-yang, thus the body was said to be obtained "unity" which is the pre-natal Chi. It is great, great then it is human, but the body is getting strong everyday, the Yin Chi was diminishing, and the Yang Chi is increasing, great(human) also gained the pre-natal Chi, which are the combination of the original chi of the little and big universes integrated as one body. If one practice the "shen return to the void", practice "void united with Tao", then one can transcend beyond the three realms, not within the Five Elements, thus it was transcended beyond Heaven, thus this is a man.

In classic, 夫 was used as an auxiliary word at the beginning of a sentence or phrase to make the phrase sound better or to draw someone's attention. "夫道者" is similar to "ah! a virtuous person.....". When "夫" was place at the end of a phrase or sentence, it is equivalent to an exclamation "!" mark.

ME... Your presentation of Chapter 30 was suggesting not to invade, but how about defense....??? There is one chapter in the TTC was suggesting to kill the bad guys. I have to go find it....!!!

不笑不足以為道 If he didn't laugh, then, it is not good enough to be Tao.

Tai Ji Chuan will strengthen your body. It has a combination of muscle and breathing exercise. As a matter of fact, initially, you'll start with muscles exercise by the slow movements; then the breathing will be guided by the movement after a prolong practice. The effect of Tai Ji Chuan will give you 勁(Jin) which is your body strength that you wanted.

1. 可與之言而不與之言，失人 2. 不可與之言而與之言，失言 1. The one who may be spoken to but not spoken to, lost the valuable one.　 2. The one who may not be spoken to but spoken to, wasted the valuable words. Translation in more comprehensive English: 1. Someone you could talk to but you did not, thus you loose that person. 2. Someone you should not talk to but you did, thus you had wasted your breath. Interpretation: 1. There was this knowledgeable person that you could have asked questions; but you didn't. Now, you have lose a valuable teacher. 2. There was this person which has no knowledge that you shouldn't be talking to him; but you did. Thus you were wasting your time and effort by talking to him.

Lao Tze riding on a buffalo empty handed: http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/lin-antique/article?mid=213&prev=214&next=206&l=f&fid=6

The poem is just an ordinary poetic description of a farmer with a buffalo in the scenery of a village. It has no significant philosophical value whatsoever.

In according the Lao Tze's wisdom and due to the paradoxical classic writing, "forsake wisdom" is more like "forsake cunning wisdom". The logic will fall within context with the phrase "People benefited hundredfold." 1. .........forsake cunning wisdom 2. People benefited hundredfold.

Both; it is because the liver meridians are symmetrical on both legs.

Only if one interprets those lines as follow: "Forsake holiness! Reject wisdom! ........................ Forsake benevolence! Reject righteousness! .......................... Forsake indigenousness! Reject vantage! ...........................? Might as well, throw the Tao Te Ching out of the window. Furthermore, the interpreter should jump out the window too.

I saw some of the notions are his biased opinion. However, the Chinese scholars had given him some credit for translating the Yi JIng to a certain degree of accuracy, but still is not the best translation. As compared to Legg's translation, Wilhelm is much closer.