ChiDragon

Let's compare the Chinese with English. English: My mother mothered me. Chinese: Tao ke tao(道可道). The second 道 is a small t because it is not a noun. In English, the noun "mother" becomes a verb by adding "ed" at the end. In Chinese, the noun "Tao" becomes a verb by adding the character 可(ke) in front of Tao. mothered: gave birth to ke tao(可道): may be spoken of

Now you tell us....!!!

It is because the Tao Te Ching belongs to the Taoist Discussion Forum.

I will give you an 'F' for this one. Why did you use Mitchell's mistranslation instead of Wu, Feng and Hendricks....??? Mitchell was way off basis.

Mitchell: 1. There was something formless and perfect 2. before the universe was born. 3. It is serene. Empty. 4. Solitary. Unchanging. 5. Infinite. Eternally present. 6. It is the mother of the universe(It may be the mother of the heaven and earth). 7. For lack of a better name, 8. I call it the Tao. 20. The universe follows the Tao. Note: Heaven and Earth maybe translated as the universe. CD: 1. There was a thing formed by chaos; 2. Before the sky and earth were born; 3. Soundless and formless; 4. Independent but unchangeable; 5. Moving but never fatigue; 6. It may be the mother of the heaven and earth(可以為天地母). 7. I don't know its name. 8. I have to call it Tao. 22.Tao follows its own nature. My evaluations.... 1. "Tao - noun; follows - verb. Itself - pronoun - implying thingness." Yes,Tao implying "thingness". By Loa Tze's description in Chapter 1, Tao was also implying as invisible thingness(無, Wu). 2. "there was no "... someting ... before the universe was born." I would rephrase this as: "there was no "... something was formed... before the universe was born."

There is no fun in that at all......

Here is a good one for you; tell me about Tao in Chapter 25. Then Chapter 77.

LOL.... Yes, I do agree that the Yin-Yang effect of Confucians and Taoists did hold the Chinese culture together. However, the hardship of mental sacrifices had caused many.

Ahhh.... It sounds like duck hunting to me. I still cant figure out how the brain works from here. How many types of meditations are there? The brain only can think one way....??? I can see that I can alter my behavior differently if I change the logic in my thoughts; but to change my physical body with my thoughts...hmmmm...???

Since when did I say that Tao is always a Noun...???

The post of ME was very promising and sounds good. However, Confucians contribute their virtue were with lots of intentions right up front. Confucius had taught a lot more things which need to be evaluated to see the whole picture. I agree with Mr. MH's comments in post #85 about outward expression.

No. I don't think 氣功 has anything to do with the 道德經. The reason some people thought so was because Lao Tze has mentioned 氣(Chi), as yin-yang, once in the Tao Te Ching.

1. John Wu When a wise scholar hears the Tao, He practices it diligently. 2. English/Feng The wise student hears of the Tao and practices it diligently. 3. Robert Henricks When the highest type of men hear the Way, with diligence they’re able to practice it; Just to be fair, I'll use these three translations for an analysis. In these three translations, the key word is "practice". That leads to the question was is 道 here if we have to translate it into English...??? Scenario #1 If 道 was translated as Tao with a capitol T, then 道 is a proper noun. Suppose we replace "Tao" with Joe in the first line. It would not make any sense at all, isn't it...??? When a wise scholar hears the Joe, He practices it diligently. Scenario #2 If 道 was translated as "tao" with a small t, then 道 can be translated as the "principle of Tao" linguistically in the Chinese language. Therefore, we have a good and proper translation as: When a wise scholar hears the "principle of Tao", He practices it diligently. In Chapter 41, as written in Classic, the 道 is the principle of Tao. Scenario #3 3. Robert Henricks When the highest type of men hear the Way, with diligence they’re able to practice it; However, if "Way" was used for 道, then it doesn't has the significant meaning of the "principle of Tao" in the context as in Scenario #2. Edited: Changed the word "does" to "doesn't" in Scenario #3.

Mr. sree... There is a difference in the word "gentleman" here between Taoist and Confucian. In Taoism, for being a gentleman was not displayed like the Confucians do. The action done by a Taoist gentleman was behind the scene. In the contrary, a Confucian gentleman has to go through a ritual to show that he is a gentleman by bowing to greet someone and said nice words. They have a tendency of showing superiority with their scholastic arrogance.

Who say it was you....??? You are the best here....

You are 100% correct. There is no Wu Wei in Confucian philosophy. As a matter of fact, the things they do in Confucian philosophy is the exact opposite of Wu Wei.

Mr sree... Let me put it this way. Sitting down is 坐下. Zazen is a term borrowed from India which is equivalent to 打坐 (da zuo). When we breathing, it was understood that we inhale and exhale. In the same token, 打坐 (da zuo) has its own definition. 打坐 (da zuo) is a term was given for practicing breathing by sitting down in a lotus position without any thinking nor meditation. There is a method do meditate or thinking which was performed by the Buddhists called 禪(zen or chan) or 參禪. I think the western public got the idea of meditation from here. In my opinion, I do not do meditation or 參禪 but I only do 打坐 (da zuo). I believe that I was doing 靜氣功(Still Chi Kung).

I am well aware of that a bunch of amateurs will screw this up......

Hey, we must allow room for corrections and use the best source there is. Mr. MH, please tell me what do you think about Chapter 41. What do you think Tao is here....???

There is no Tao in this Chapter from the original classic. This chapter was mistranslated by Mitchell. It should read.... Heaven and Earth ................sides;

@ anamatva.....I think the object here was for the responder to offer the info. @ MH.....no disagreement. @ imperial.....It seems to me you are not responding correctly. Please use something from the TTC...!!!

wow......we are really derailing this thread now. Please give it to me in Chinese.

I remembered someone was telling me anything that I'd said was only my opinion. hmmm.............

Do you know what is Wu Wei....??? Please don't cite anything but just say yes or no. If yes, then follow it..... If no, just continue with your fun.

Sorry, you had not done it properly. Thus I have to give him the credit....