ChiDragon

You are a gentleman and a scholar.....

That is the only correction.......???? Who gave you the right to change someone's intended meaning.....???

There are some chapters do speak about the things similar to "The Art of Wat". I was hoping somebody would be interested in that.

That is correct. I am study the philosophy of the Tao Te Ching as a 道家 other than a 道士. However, I may follow the principles of Tao and still practice Chi Kung and Tai Chi for health benefits as a 道士 without getting into the 道教.

Here is the book I am using written by most knowledgeable modern scholar, 陳鼓應. All the information there are in the world is in his book. The westerners are so happy with the ancient stuff and their one time translation and never bothered to update nor revise their work. Especially they treat their translations as a bible and never recheck the validity of the outdated work. Thus it's really getting on my nerves. The Received Version is in this book that the west was never aware of.

1. The Received Version is a latest edition done by the modern scholars. 2. I don't know what is the western readership has anything to do with it. As I had indicated before, I was using the Received Version for all my translations. Please don't get all heat up with the western thinking right now. Wait until I give you a presentation, then you will know what I am talking about.

There is one thing about classic; it has no punctuations. The reader has to know where to place a pause to get a good meaning out of the text. In a worse case, if the pause was place at the wrong spot, then the meaning may be completely different. Sometimes, it may be logical but wrong meaning or misinterpretation. It is better off when it is illogical because the reader may try to pause somewhere else to have the text to make sense. Chapter One has a very critical situation in punctuation. I will show how the comma was placed and cause the meanings to be out of whack. Thus, Chapter One is a best place to start with our discussion to shown this critical situation.

Why do we need the Received Version of the Tao Te Ching....??? There were many copies, not version, of the Tao Te Ching. Those copies could be written be anybody in any education level during the past couple centuries. Those were written by different people in different periods of time. When ideas passed around, there will be something gets lost in the translation. Some people do make changes to the TTC in their favor for whatever reason and it was done. The unearthed copies had shown phonetics and incorrect characters were used to cause the phrase to be out of context. For those who are, natives and foreign scholars, not familiar with the classic will be misled and cause misinterpretation. Unfortunately, as in the foreigner case, the translations may be resulted with greater errors inevitably.

I think it all depends on the level of perfection that the person is in pursuit. In addition, it also depends on the intelligence and ability of the person and how to get there. However, if a person does not yield to any obstruction by not making changes or corrections due to stubbornness, stupidity and ignorance, then the answer would be yes. It is stagnancy.

"I don't see the DDJ as saying there should be no emperor, just that s/he should rule as subtly and unobtrusively as possible. Which implies that s/he does need to rule." MS..... You are 100% right. The TTC also says that the people are living in peace; thus they don't even know that there was an emperor ever existed.

Correction: ..................as cosmetics for immature audience like us.

....................as cosmetics for immature audience.

Perhaps, a non-Taoist....???

The Mods are mods by Zi Ren.....

The rules are made to be available as cosmetics for immature audience; but hopefully nobody breaks them and no need to enforce them....!!!

"I will tell the truth, nothing but the truth. So, help you God!" What is the truth here.....???

I think the mods are doing a great job for being Wu Wei. BTW This is a Taoist forum, you know.......!!! If everyone talks about learning and following the Way of Tao on the initial post, then everyone should act like one or at least pretended like one.

Let's not pour any more gasoline onto the burning fire....shall we....???

In martial arts, there are two classifications were considered by the practitioners. These two classifications are categorized as whether they are legitimate or illegitimate. A legitimate practice which does not cause body harm but good to the body as the result of the practice. It was considered to be something that is traditional and confirmed unanimously by consensus of the legitimate group of practitioners. An illegitimate practice which may cause body harm during the process of the practice. The practice can be easily engaged into "run over fire and enter the devilish path". Any immoral act or witchcraft in the practice was also considered to be an illegitimate practice. These kinds of practices are straightly forbidden to be practiced by the legitimate group. BTW Throughout the Chinese history, shamanism was forbidden, by all rulers, to be practiced in the palaces.

takaaki... I apologize for causing your uneasiness in revealing your true identity. I am no better than anybody else. Perhaps, I just happened to be spent a little more time finding the right sources to learn a bit more. Wait until you know what I knew, we'll be even. The word "superior" was a gushing compliment(言重了). I thank you for your modesty and humbleness. I am glad that we are bilingual which will give us a better chance not to have any misunderstanding in our communications. Anyway, to avoid any further personal conflicts, let's have our scholastic discussion in the 道家學說 Section where the classic text is presentable over there.

takaaki.... I have the impression that you have some knowledge of the Chinese characters. Can you give me a rough idea of your ability in understanding the Chinese characters. Can you understand them by looking at them without looking up in a dictionary character by character to guess their meanings.....??? I need to know this in advance so I can present the discussion to a certain level. Thanks.

It is not a problem. I'm glad to start a new thread to discuss Chapter one to begin with. It would be a change of pace for me to discuss the TTC with an open and logical mind individual who has great interest of what I had been keeping to myself for sometime. Thanks for given me the great opportunity.

Back to the OP..... I have noticed that some members had changed their attitude and choice of words with less hostility toward each other. It certainly makes me feel better that the Process of Tao is in effect....... Edited to add: It effected me greatly.

You tell me.......

Well, all my translations were done based on the Received Version in the Tao Te Ching section. The logic just flow from line-to-line and chapter-to-chapter throughout the TTC. Thus that was why my translation was done so smoothly.......