ChiDragon

Video-2 Continue at 3:05 1. where you are attacked where you fight back. 1. You will strike where you were being attacked. 2. I do not know how to do concretely 2. I didn't know it was a quale but then it was a quale. 3. Then nowhere is there not fists around body. 3. Then, there is nowhere on your body was not a fist. 4. not only this part 4. It is not only this here. 5. so does this part. 5. This place is the same(strike toward the right front). 6. so does this part. 6. This place is the same(strike toward the left rear). 7. nowhere is there not fists around body 7. The fists were grown allover the body. 8. what kind of fist any method can be generalized into one. 8. No matter what kind of fist, all were integrated into one. 9. one movement rule 9. An activated routine 10. move dantian move it wherever here. 10. When the dantian moves, wherever it was pointed to, then it will go here(his right hand is pointing toward the front). 11. move it backward backward 11. If made it go to the rear, then it goes toward the rear. 12. move it toward lateral side 12. If made it go to the side, then it goes to the side. 13. what shall be done just is this movement 13. In order to make this move, 14............(Did not show the characters) 14. (Follow his hand motion on the dantian) 15. just like firing gun 15. It was just like firing a gun. 16. where you aim at where you can hit 16. You hit where you were aimed. 17. move leftward rightward forward and backward 17. When moved toward the left, right, front and rear, 18. find some position 18. Find that particular position, 19. Slow force is soft strength fast force is exerted strength 19. The slow strength is the soft Jin(柔勁); the fast strength is Fa Jin(發勁). 20. Shoulder can exert force so can elbow and chest 20. Shoulder can Fa Jin; elbow can Fa jin and chest can Fa Jin. 21. all points can exert force 21. All the joint locations also can Fa Jin. 22. it is unnecessary to introduce one by one 22. It is not necessary to introduce them one by one. 23. the following force I will introduce to you is the unexpected one for you 23. Next, I will introduce a Jin! Frequently, It is a Jin that no one had ever thought of. 24. that is the foot swinging. 24. It is just the swaying leg. 25. Why shall you beat your own foot 25. Say that one is hitting one's own foot for what? 26. for example how to use the method of beating your own foot. 26. For example, how to apply the method of one is hitting one's own foot...??? 27. catch my shoulder both hands 27. Hold my shoulders with both hands. 28. wrestle step forward look 28. Wrestle, step forward and watch out! 29. this is foot swinging 29. This is the swaying leg. Paused at 4:34

You welcome and thank you....!!! "My sigung(師公)" ...... How did I earn such high respect....??? There are more coming. It will be the climax of the evaluation of this thread.

I agreed. That is a general rule anyway. However, I would say that to a Chinese Taoist.

Dialogue from Video-1 After Round 2..... Long: "This round was much better than the previous round." Girl asked: "This time was the strength big?" Chen: "It was big." Girl again: "How much did he used this time?" Chen: "100 %" Long: "His point of strength and where is the point of cancellation between his and my strengths, basically, I cannot find it. Chen: "He used full throttle and still not able to push me to move." Long: "Therefore, during the course that I was in the moving process, actually I had changed my step position. At the beginning, I was at my right side. Then, at the time I turned to his back at the right, there was a big sway on his whole body." Chen: "It is because occasionally, he was just changing his strength but he knows how to make changes. He changes very rapidly." Long: "If I make often single moves, he can cancel my moves a lot easier. Only if my speed in the moves are quick enough, while he is in the worse situation, then his reaction wouldn't be as quick as I am." Girl reporter: "In facing his changing in strength, how would you handle it?" Chan: "He makes changes, I would too." Long: "Only I make my moves quick enough and his reaction cannot keep up with my speed; I definitely will beat him in the next round." Chen: "I know at last he will be more aggressive. I am already aware of it." Long: "Therefore, I will move quickly and exert force again. That's right. I should not have any problem."

Dialogue in Video-1 Round 1 starts at 5:05 After the one minute Round 1........... Long Wu(龍武) was almost out of breath. The almost seventy years old Master Chen was walked away seems like nothing had happened but he said he had used a tremendous amount of yuen chi(元氣, innate energy). Chen said: " Long Wu's strength is very genuine, it is more genuine then others in comparison. This is the first time that I have to use full throttle(against someone)." Long Wu: "I cannot exert any force at all, in one flash, the force was just slipping on his body. Chen: "His force was, even though, very genuine and very big. It was a brutal force." Long: "I felt that was my first time encounter, and also I felt that was the first time I had encountered this kind of strength. We have a difference between our occupational strengths." Chen: "I can win him by the principle of using the soft to overcome the hard." Long: "His center of gravity originally was low(at 7:10), it was below his buttock. I pushed him here. Then next time I will push him even lower. Right, I think that I may give it a try."

Let's look at Video-1 at 3:00 first, Chen was having the same advantage with the most powerful strongest man(龍武, Long Wu) in China as with this Judo Wrestler(時晨陽). Here are the vital statistic..... Judo Wrestler(時晨陽): Weights 180.6 Kg = 398.18 pounds His height is taller than Chen by one head length. Chen is half the size of his opponent. By observation: Chen has the advantage for being shorter because he can use his right shoulder to go against the chest of the opponent. Chen was using the best stance to anchor himself on the ground. As we can see that the feet of his opponent are slipping which indicates he has poor leverage and no Zhan Zhuang experience. Unfortunately, the worse of all, he has no "Jin". The only advantage was his own body wights plus a little push. The reason I said that was because the opponent was leaning his body against the shoulder of Mater Chen. When his moving his legs, his body did not go anywhere. The stance held by the legs of Master Chen had hardly moved. The advantage that Master Chen has is his Jin acquired from the practice of Tai Ji Quan. He was using his Jin to hold himself in place. Let's look at their competitive situation from the physical structure of both men. There is no way that a normal average person can withstand such heavy weight of the Judo Wrestler. By the law of physics in momentum, the high mass always pushes the lower mass away. In Video-1, we see two masses are pushing against each other. However, the lower mass was able to withstand the higher mass. How can we explain that...??? In Video-1, at 2:45, a triangular theory was presented about using the torso and the legs to form a triangle with the ground. Chen claimed that any external pushing force is going through his body can be canceled by manipulating the inner strength inside the body. Thus the pushing force can be directed to the ground through the legs. He also claims as long as the triangle was there, then he can stand as a mountain. If we go back to the video at 1:46, Master Chen is standing on one leg against a pushing force which contradicted the Triangular theory. How are we going to explain that without physics and physiology....???

You know in Video-2, Tai Ji Master Chen had mentioned the term "jin" many times. He told his disciple to use jin and he Fa Jin at the beginning of the video. When he Fa Jin, do you think that his muscles were contracted or in the "song" state....??? Interestingly enough that Master Chen use the term "jin" a lot in Video-2. However, during the intermission, both masters had interesting conversations with their disciples. I have noticed the Master Chen did not use the term "jin" nor "Fa Jin" to describe the force used by his opponent. In fact, he used the term "brutal force" as the description for the force being exerted by the opponent. These two videos will demonstrate the difference between what is "Jin" and "brutal force". The "Jin" is an internal practice(內功, neigong) while all others are external practice(外功). In Video-1, the most strong man in China(龍武, Long Wu) is using external practice. There is no need to repeat that Tai Ji was understood it is internal practice. What external practice does, it only give the practitioner a little time to exert the body strength. In few minute, the practitioner will be exhausted. That's is why only one minute was given for each round; so, the competitors can recuperate for the next round to have a fair competition. I will translate the conversations between the Masters and the disciples during the intermission. It is very interesting and we can learn the basic principles about Tai Ji and martial arts from their dialogues.

Welcome..... Based on what you are telling us, you know who you are. Don't worry....!!!

Video-2 Continue at 1:40 23. what is the movement error? 23. What is the deviation within the movements? 24. right this is error(Observe the incorrectness from 1:50). 24. Yes, this is called the deviation(誤差). 25. the larger eror is the smaller moved qi flow will be 25. The greater the deviation, the amount of the inner qi was circulated much less. 26. inner qi interpenetrates muscle to produce driving force 26. The inner qi merges with the muscle to generate the active force. 27. push me look he pushes me 27. Push me! Look he pushes me! 28. although he fails to move me his force is large. 28. Even though he did not make me move but his strength is not small. 29. Isn't it push again step forward. 29. Isn't it right? Let's do it again, step forward. 30. put this foot froward step forward. 30. Put this foot in front then step forward. 31. push me backward push me again push with force. 31. The "little devil is pushing the grinder", pushing me again; use jin to push. 32. do you exert force any longer why are you have no force. 32. Do you still have jin or have no jin? How come you have no more jin...??? 33. look why does he not exert force 33. Look! How come he has no jin...??? 34. qi cannot interpenetrate 34. It is because that the qi cannot merge(into the muscles). 35. the muscle cannot produce driving force. 35. This muscle(at 2.28) cannot generate the active force. Use jin again! 36. this is to lessen error by means of practice fist. 36. This is the way that we practice to minimize the deviation. 37. interpenetrate inner qi then it will be conducted to muscles 37 By linking the inner qi, then the inner qi was delivered to the muscles. 38. to produce driving force you shall look for this movement rule. 38. To generate the active force(動力), you need to find the activated routine. 39. you can exert force momentarily where you need to do so 39. From wherever needed to be Fa Jin(發勁), all can be exploded at anytime. Paused at 2:50

Video-2 Continue at 0:50 9. there is not difference among shoulder elbow and fist. 9. The shoulder, elbow, and the fist are the same. 10. move from this place three forces. 10. Move from here(waist), the three sources of Jin(勁). 11. the first one is groin force. 11. The first source is the groin jin(襠勁). 12. the second one is waist force. 12. The second source is waist jin(腰勁). 13. the third one is chest and shoulder. 13. The third source are the chest and shoulder jin((胸肩勁). 14. generally in the course of beginning to learn. 14. Usually, at the beginning of the learning course. 15. particular about too much application use chest force. 15. Particularly, there are too many applications. If the chest jin(胸勁) was applied, 16. then you will forget waist force and groin force. 16. Then you will neglect the waist jin and groin jin. 17. attend to one thing and lose another. 17. If you pay attention to a particular one, then you will neglect the others. 18. what is groin force? 18. Wat is called the groin jin? 19. stand with staggering both legs this is groin force. 19. Standing with both legs separated in opposite is called groin jin. 20. the force on leg is named as groin force. 20. The jin on the thigh is called the groin jin. 21. the driving force produced from waist is named as waist force. 21. The active force generated from the waist is called the waist jin. 22. then use chest & shoulder force sense and qi additionally. 22. Then combines with the significance of the chest and shoulder jins. I will pause at 1:40....!!! Note: The next translation is very critical to understand jin(勁).

This video Master Chen Ziaowang talks about lots about Jin(勁) and Fa Jin(發勁). Video-2. The translations in the video are very poor and misleading. I would like to translate them again. 1. Use this method to look for best position for frame. 1. Use this method(by standing still) to find the best position for the stance(架子). 2. after being skillful discard this frame. 2. After the adeptness, then there is no need to use this stance anymore. 3. If you fight 3. If you get into a fight. 4. when you are standing frame. 4. By the time you take the peng(棚) stance. 5. Peng he will attack to you. 5. His attack was being launched at you already. 6. without frame this frame seeks for best position. 6. Without any stance, this stance(at 0:40) will find the best position. 7. Then how to do rapidly. 7. Then how to do it quickly. oops......Dinner time, I will continue.....

Deviation in height of Zhan Zhuang 1. At high Zhuang: for health purposes: 2. At low Zhuang: for martial artists. The lowest one can go down by bending the knees at 90 degrees has the stronger legs. The knees will take all the stressful punishment without even having them pass the toes. If one can anchor the feet to the ground with the bending angles at 90 degree of ankles and knees, then one can be classified as a Shaolin warrior monk. PS.... My delusion of authority has been certified by Steve...........

In order to Fa Jin (發勁), one has know what is 勁. Please tell me what you think that is instead of not what it is. Anybody want to try to give a good description. Please keep in mind, what is 勁??? Not how to Fa Jin. Let's make this a higher level of discussion conducted in a more professional manner. I thank you in advance.

Fa Jin is the ability to have any individual muscle in the body to exert a force. I did not prefer this method. It was will known by the martial artists. If one goes to Kung Fu school, at least in China anyway, the first thing was asked by the Sifu to have the students to do zhan zhang before teaches them anything else. The Sifu will go to each student and give a push to check the ma bu(馬步) daily. If the student got pushed out of place, then the student failed the test. So, the ZZ continuous until the student passed the test. Zhan Zhuang give a foundation for martial artists to anchor their feet to the ground for stability in balancing the body. Like I said before and I will say it again. Zhan Zhuang is to build up the muscle tone in the leg muscles. As soon one bends the legs, the leg muscles contract automatically. The amount of contraction depends on the bending angle of the knee, the smaller the angle the tighter the muscles. You can always try that yourself at anytime. If you understand how the muscle works, you will know that when muscle contracts the biochemical energy, ATP, will be generated. The tighter the muscles the more ATP energy will be generated. In order to keep the ATP energy going, one must be continuously breathing in the oxygen to react with the glucose. If one does not understand this much about muscle contractions, then there is no longer to continue with this thread.

LOL..... No, Zhan Zhuang will prepare you for a better physical shape to handle the most adverse situation that one might encounter. At least, ZZ will give one a better chance of survival. ZZ is very important in balancing one's body. If one can do the 90 degree stance, then it will help to prevent one from falling off the edge of a cliff. Let's assume that you are standing at the edge of a cliff for some reason. Somehow, your back was face outward due to a situation which causing you to fall. For most people, they will fall off due to their weights by gravity. However, for an ZZ practitioner, one can control the weights by Fa Jin to put all the strength on the legs to hold the body in place.

Well, second thought, you guys are right about relaxing shoulders but it is only can be done at high zhuang. However, at the 45 degree stance, the body weight was shifted to the rear because the knees must kept behind the toes. In order to keep the body in balance, I have to extend my hands forward to counterbalance my body weight from falling off. That was why my shoulders were not relaxed even though my elbows were still bent.

dwai and mYTHmAKER...... I was wearing something black; one cannot see too good that my elbows were bent not which it was. I know you guys like to put more emphasis on relaxing the shoulders which is fine. However, IMO, the legs are more important to keep the body in place than the shoulders. When one run into a dangerous situation, one would rather be concerned about the strength of the legs more than the relaxing shoulders. Don't you think....???

We are only humans and start doing the practice in the later stage of our lives. The Wudang Taoists are super humans because they were practicing since they were young. If you can do the 90 degree stance right away at the school, then you would be as good as them and don't need to go there in the first place.

Thanks. Here is what I am experiencing. On the lower stance, I felt a tremendous stress on the upper and the lower legs. I only feel the stress on the knees if they were passed the toes. If I have to keep the back straight, at lower stance, I have to move my back backward to align with the vertical and bend my knees to go pass the toes and move the hands forward to keep myself in balance. At the high Zhuang, there was less stress on the legs, almost none. Thus people can stand for hours and meditate if they wish. At 45 degrees, the stress is tolerable for some people with a good physical condition. They can stand for a limited of time. I think the 45 degrees stance has the best effect; some might have some moderate sore or pain in the muscles at the beginning. However, the muscles will adapt to the stress and getting less sore as the practice progresses.

mYTHmAKER..... Here is my video done indoor. At the end, I showed balancing myself with one bent leg as the result from the practice.

bubbles.... This thread may not be the "high level of discussion" has taken place. However, the 90 degree stance is certainly a high level of practice..... You are welcome to bother me anytime....

No, it is not me, but I will make a video of me for you as soon as the weather permits. It's a rainy day here right now....!!!

When most people speaking about "sung", they did not include the phrases as indicated in bold. That was what threw me off. Anyway, if one can do the 90 degree stance, one already has all the tools to do it by all means. At that level, all the minor details are no longer significant. Thus it becomes natural to the practitioner. PS.... Is there a real need to repeat all the amateur stuffs at a high level of discussion. All those are understood. Don't you think.....???

Ohhh... I forgot one more thing. Please tell them sorry for me that I excluded them.......

i am,,, Please do...!!! I am sure that they don't mind for being Taoists. They probably get a good laugh out of it.....