ChiDragon

"Do you have an idea on why these poets would be in the centre of a display among deities/immortals?" I want to bring this to your attention. These two poets are on a structure built by humans which indicates that they are human. All the figures riding on the clouds are deities/immortals. All the deities were mentioned in the 化胡经(Hua Hu Ching), a fairy tale describes all the deities/immortals in the Taoist religion.

Hmmm.... Where and how did you get these vague and bogus ideas from reading the Tao Te Ching.....???

Hi, folks..... Before we go too far, let me clarify that the 化胡经(Hua Hu Ching) is a fairy tale written by the Tao Cult. It was praised that Loa Tze as the supreme deity in the Taoist religion. 化胡经(Hua Hu Ching) does not reflect nor represent the principles in the Tao Te Ching because it was only a fairy tale.

No, if people do not value for hard-to-get-goods, then they have no desire to obtain them by dealing. Indeed, there will be no thief in the world.

I didn't know that Lao Tze ever talked about religions in the TTC.

(不贵难得之货) in Chapter 3. It says that not having possessions will avoid stealing. It should read as: Do not value(no desire for) the hard-to-get-goods will avoid stealing.

It is because you know what "enlightened" really means........

I believe 無心 should be read as "no intention" rather than "no-mind'.

Wise words of wisdom. If the people on TTB do not perceive these from here, then I don't know where.

I wouldn't start with MA. If one wants to learn a certain style, just stay pure within the style. At the beginning, try not to confuse yourself too much with the habits from others.

There are many Chapters in the Tao Te Chine was describing Tao. Chapter 1 has a good start, what other chapters that have descriptions of Tao and would you like to quote them....??? Chapter 1: 1. Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao. If you would like to call Tao as the "way", then what is your justification.....???

1. I am not quite sure what you are asking. 2. It takes one to know one....

1. Now, at this point in time, you are asking me for some quotes. I guess you have not follow this thread at all. 2. With this kind of attitude(unsatisfying), you will never have a satisfying explanation nor understand of the TTC. Based on your present insecure feeling about the TTC, I felt it wouldn't be advantageous to extend our inconclusive discussion to another forum page.

Mr. Marblehead.... Shall we stop here or continue.....???? I think we had enough. Don't you....???

I am on your side and cannot agree with you more but my post #141 is still holds.....

Owledge..... "Didn't even Lao Tzu say that he just used that name to give it a name and that it's of no relevance?" If you took that literally, then, you had missed the whole point. I granted you that Loa Tze said Tao is indescribable in the first chapter. However, did you see what he did...??? He contradicted himself by trying to describe Tao in many chapters for the different meaning of Tao. Actually, he was trying to tell us that Tao cannot be described in one word due to its multiple meanings. He has to describe Tao separately. Indeed, the name itself has definite significant meaning each time when it was used. So far, nine pages are nothing as compared to eighty-one chapters in the Tao Te Ching. BTW Why does it bother you so much......??? Peace...!!!

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SUBHK..... You welcome and happy new year to you too........ I have no disagreement with the names in the first post. I think you did a great job better than me. Those five names are just names. I can do some research and get back to you on this one. "Do you have an idea on why these poets would be in the centre of a display among deities/immortals?" The most logical thing that I can think of is because humans are the center of all these imaginations about deities/immortals.

Chapter 80 - A Peaceful Little Country 1. 小國寡民! 2. 有什伯之器 而不用, 3. 使民重死 而不遠徙。 4. 雖有舟輿 無所乘之, 5. 雖有甲兵 無所陳之。 6. 使民復結繩而用之。 7. 甘其食, 8. 美其服, 9. 安其居, 10.樂其俗。 11.鄰國相望, 12.雞犬之聲相聞, 13.民至老死, 14.不相往來。 Terse English 1. A small countries with few people! 2. Though there are many utensils but not in use. 3. Let the people feel rather die than migrate. 4. Though owning boats and wagons no need to ride them, 5. Though owning weapons no need to display them. 6. Let people return to era of using knots as reminder. 7. Give them food, 8. Offer them attire, 9. Provide them shelter, 10. Amuse them with entertainment. 11. Looking over the neighboring countries, 12. Hearing the sounds of chickens and dogs of each other, 13. People grew old until death, 14. Neither socialized with one another. sree........ Did you have Chapter 80 in mind.....???

This is a bad combination: "One is a Christian, one a Buddhist, and I an Atheist." How about One is a Christian, one a Buddhist, and I a Taoist....????

Original Classic 1. 使我介然有知， 2. 行於大道， 3. 唯施是畏。 4. 大道甚夷， 5. 而人好徑。 . . . 13. 是謂盜夸。 14. 非道也哉。 CD's translation: 1. If I have a little bit of knowledge, 2. Then walking on a big road. 3. I'm afraid that I might be going into a wrong direction. 4. The big road is leveled; 5. But the people, still, would like to take a small trail. . . . 13. They are considered to be bandits. 14. This is not tao at all. Analysis: In lines 2 & 4, the proper translation for 大道(noun) is "big road" instead of the "big way". In lines 14, 道(tao, noun) is the "principles of Tao".

I think most people do not understand why the Buddhists meditate(參禪). Anyway, the Buddhists mediate were for enlightenment to understand a particular philosophy by focusing on a single point to find its truth. The single point was referred as a subject which require a quiet state to contemplate profoundly until it was resolved mentally. After the accomplishment in finding the truth and enhanced their wisdom, hence, they were considered to be enlightened. When they had attained at a high level of wisdom, their minds are in a calmer state which reflecting their personality. Thus it was seemingly that their nature or behavior was revealed inwardly.

Chapter 53 is a good one; 道(tao) has a different meaning.

2. 譬道之在天下，猶川谷之於江海。 2. If Tao was similized, in the world, then it is analogous to the streams and creeks flowing into a river and ocean. Since some of you are good English speakers, how would you simplify it without loosing the complete thought....???

Chapter 32 道常無名。 樸雖小天下莫能臣也。 侯王若能守之， 萬物將自賓。 天地相合以降甘露， 民莫之令而自均。 始制有名， 名亦既有， 夫亦將知止， 知止可以不殆。 譬道之在天下， 猶川谷之於江海。 There are only two "Tao" in the original classic. 1. 道常無名。 2. 譬道之在天下，猶川谷之於江海。 John Wu 1. Tao is always nameless. 2. The Tao is to the world what a great river or an ocean is to the streams and brooks. English/Feng The Tao is forever undefined. Tao in the world is like a river flowing home to the sea. Robert Henricks 1. The Dao is constantly nameless. 2. All things end in the Tao (Noun) as rivers flow into the sea. CD 1. Tao is always nameless. 2. If Tao was similized, in the world, then it is analogous to the streams and creeks flowing into a river and ocean. Tao is a noun in these two lines and both are the same Tao with consistency.