ChiDragon

"I know peng is not a fa jin," Based on the statement made bu you, I don't know how long have you been practiced Tai Ji....??? Based on my understanding and experience, without a long time practice, one does not have any jin developed in the muscles. Without the ability to Fa Jin, your peng has no strength. In order to Fa Jin, your body must have a good foundation in rooting to keep your legs stay put on the ground. That will support your body to stay in place while you peng to counteract any external force.

Without the long time practice of the fundamental movements, one will not has any Tai Ji effect at all, at any part of the body, at any time. BTW Peng relies on Fa Jin also.

The answer is yes. All the FaJin was based on the force exerted by the muscles for a long time Tai Ji Practitioner. Only a long time Tai Ji Practitioner can Fa Jin because the Jin can be developed in the muscle, only, by the long time practice of the basic movements. Fa Jin has to be coming from the internal force of the muscles.

Normally, 命令 are compound characters were to be meant "command".

To give you a rough idea why it was so. You see, when something comes alive(有命). We give it a lively name(命名). Thus 命名 becomes to have a meaning of "give it a lively name". Sometimes 命 is short for 命名. Just follow this little logic and I hope it will help you to see how the Chinese thinking are. I think for the same reason as in classic English. Isn't there any word was used in Classic English and not in use now....???

The problem with Etymology is a good source for definitions but it does not distinguish the characters was classic or modern. That's what I meant.

In classic, 命 is the same as saying 名(to name something or someone.) PS.... This is one of the fundamentals has to be known before hand, in order, to understand the classic writing.

I think your thinking is on the right track. However, the word "measure" does not quite fit for something that is invisible.

Good show, it was out of place. FYI... Here is a good reference of the restored copy of the Tao Te Ching(MWD-A). Please go to page 四四九（449）for Chapter 14. 捪之而弗得， 命之曰夷 Ref: Tao Te Ching MWD-A

15. Grasp the past of Tao to be driven all the present physical beings 16. Able to understand the ancient origin, 17. It's called the Principles of Tao. I think this chapter was telling us that even though Tao is invisible but Tao is always around us. By grokking its presence and study its nature, so we'll have some principles to follow.

It could be; but line 2 says all and it can stand by itself without any external definition. 2. 聽之不聞,名曰希。 2. Listen to it couldn't hear, name and call it Soundless.

Do you think that everyone has the same wisdom as LaoTze does....??? Are you out of your mind....???

It really didn't say anything. What did you try to show here...??? FYI When it comes to classic, one cannot rely on the Etymology.

1. Ain't you lucky, you got more than what you bargained for....!!! I hope you didn't miss anything. 2. Why do you make good use of it...???

Chapter 14 Revised 14 1. 視之不見,名曰夷。 2. 聽之不聞,名曰希。 3. 摶之不得,名曰微。 4. 此三者不可致詰， 5. 故混而為一。 6. 其上不皦， 7. 其下不昧， 8. 繩繩不可名， 9. 復歸於無物。 10.是謂無狀之狀， 11.無物之象， 12.是謂惚恍。 13.迎之不見其首， 14.隨之不見其後。 15.執古之道以御今之有。 16.能知古始， 17.是謂道紀。 Translated in terse English... 1. View it couldn't see, name and call it Colorless. 2. Listen to it couldn't hear, name and call it Soundless. 3. Touch it couldn't feel, name and call it Formless. 4. These three objects are impossible to cross-examine. 5. Thus they are blended into one. 6. Its top not brilliant. 7. Its bottom nor dim. 8. Its continuance unnameable. 9. Returned to being nothingness, 10. Is called form of no form. 11. An image of nothingness, 12. Is called obscure. 13. Greet it cannot see its head. 14. Follow it cannot see its back. 15. Grasp the past of Tao to be driven all the present physical beings 16. Able to understand the ancient origin, 17. It's called the Principles of Tao. Note: Revisions are shown in bold.

Chapter 14 Revised 14 1. 視之不見,名曰夷。 2. 聽之不聞,名曰希。 3. 摶之不得,名曰微。 4. 此三者不可致詰， 5. 故混而為一。 6. 其上不皦， 7. 其下不昧， 8. 繩繩不可名， 9. 復歸於無物。 10.是謂無狀之狀， 11.無物之象， 12.是謂惚恍。 13.迎之不見其首， 14.隨之不見其後。 15.執古之道以御今之有。 16.能知古始， 17.是謂道紀。 Translated in terse English... 1. View it couldn't see, name and call it Colorless. 2. Listen to it couldn't hear, name and call it Soundless. 3. Touch it couldn't feel, name and call it Formless. 4. These three objects are impossible to cross-examine. 5. Thus they are blended into one. 6. Its top not brilliant. 7. Its bottom nor dim. 8. Its continuance unnameable. 9. Returned to being nothingness, 10. Is called form of no form. 11. An image of nothingness, 12. Is called obscure. 13. Greet it cannot see its head. 14. Follow it cannot see its back. 15. Grasp the past of Tao to be driven all the present physical beings 16. Able to understand the ancient origin, 17. It's called the Principles of Tao.

You Welcome....!!!!

yiming... Leave them alone and let it be.

Yes. 弗 is a very classical character of saying "no; not"; and 不 is the modern character was most used for "no; not".

FYI... Here is a good reference of the restored copy of the Tao Te Ching(MWD-A). Please go to page 四四九（449）for Chapter 14. 捪之而弗得， 命之曰夷 Ref: Tao Te Ching MWD-A

If one understand the meanings of those classical characters, one will know that the phrases mean the same thing. If not, one should spend more time to learn the meanings of these characters. BTW: Your ref: 德昏之而弗得命之曰夷 德 does not belong here. It was a blank space in the original. and昏 should be 捪. 捪之而弗得， 命之曰夷 捪 means "touch". 昏 means dusk; dim; confused; to faint In case someone didn't know. 弗 means 不。 In classic, 命 is the same as saying 名(to name something or someone.)。 Anymore question.....????

Yes, yiming, but you must learn to understand the principles of the Tao Te Ching, in order, to know how to live the right way...!!! If you don't understand these principles, then how are you going to live the right way...???

Chapter 14 1. 視之不見，名曰夷。 2. 聽之不聞，名曰希。 3. 摶之不得，名曰微。 Translated in terse English... 1. View it couldn't see, let's call it Colorless. 2. Listen to it couldn't hear, let's call it Soundless. 3. Touch it couldn't feel, let's call it Formless. Chapter 14 is a very typical case of classic Chinese. The last three characters, 夷 希 微, in the first three lines are very classical. Their classic meaning may not be found in any of the modern Chinese dictionaries. It is because they were already being defined in these lines. From Chapter 1, we were told that Tao is invisible. When Tao was invisible, we grok its quale. We are the qualia of Tao...??? Well, Tao is formless, colorless, and soundless. Lines 1 through 3 are self explanatory. 1. View it couldn't see, let's call it 夷(yi2). 2. Listen to it couldn't hear, let's call it 希(xi1). 3. Touch it couldn't feel, let's call it 微(wei2). Let's start with line 3, it says something that one cannot feel which implies it's 'formless'. Thus 微(wei2) is formless. Line 2, it says something that one cannot be heard which implies it's 'soundless'. Thus 希(xi1) is soundless. Line 1, it says something that one cannot feel by touch which implies it's 'colorless'. Thus 夷(yi2) is colorless. Of course, we could say line 1 as follows: Line 1, it says something that one cannot see which implies it's 'invisible' too. Thus 夷(yi2) is invisible. However, Chapter 1 had already stolen the word 'invisible' by calling Tao as 無(Wu, invisible)。 So, we ended up 夷(yi2) as 'colorless'. This is the fun part in reading and studying the TTC. It gives us an opportunity to test our wisdom by making us to think a little by our own intuition with common sense. Finally, the ultimate test was the sense of logic.

In case of any misunderstanding or disrespect. Here is the translation. "Teacher, I'm here. My name is 易明(yiming). I am here to learn classical Chinese."

yiming.... If you have anymore questions, please continue at the new thread, Class Room for Classic Chinese.