ChiDragon

No, it is the understanding of the Chinese Classic. That is the issue. Please remember, the Classic has no grammar, it is not like English. If one use the English sentence structure to interpret the Classic is on the wrong approach. Anyway, I do not wish to continue to engage in this kind of endless argument.

I don't know how do you justify your reasoning. The proper Chinese for "wei wu wei" is always meant "for Wu Wei". I meant always. If you are insisting to twist the meaning to fit your own taste, thus I do not have a good reason to continue with the invalid argument.

Hey you guys.... Why do you start a new thread for studying the Chinese characters.....???

Chapter 2 1. Everyone, on earth, knows beauty as beauty, 2. Then, saw ugliness. 3. Everyone knows kindness as kindness, 4. Then, saw evil. 5. Therefore, 6. Solid and space coexisted; 7. Difficulty and easiness mutually succeeded; 8. Long and short mutually formed; 9. High and low mutually encompassed; 10.Melodies and songs mutually harmonized; 11.Front and back mutually trailed; 12.Always the same. 13.Sage handles matters in a natural manner(Wu Wei). The reason I want to get a head start was very important. In order to interpret line 13, one must read the lines above it. Lines 1 and 3 are active; and lines 2 and 4 are passive but happening spontaneously as the result of lines 1 and 3 respectively. Also, lines 6 through 11, the dyad are mutually interacting with each other. LaoTze was introducing all this natural phenomena for his explanations in the future chapters. 14.Gives silent instructions(no instruction). 15.Let things be with no interference; 16.Grown without possession. 17.Sustain without domination. 18.Success without dwelling. 19.Because of not dwelling alone, 20.Merits do not vanish. Lines 14 through 18 are the samples given the clues to the reader, in bold, to show what Wu Wei was. Hence, one must consider these clues as definition for Wu Wei for the interpretation of the Tao Te Ching in the later chapters. PS.... Wu Wei is "let Nature take its course". This sound familiar.....???

Chapter 2 Relativity 1. 天下皆知美之為美， 2. 斯惡已； 3. 皆知善之為善， 4. 斯不善已。 5. 故， 6. 有無相生， 7. 難易相成， 8. 長短相形， 9. 高下相盈， 10.音聲相和， 11.前後相隨。 12.恒也。 13.是以聖人處無為之事， 14.行不言之教。 15.萬物作焉而不辭。 16.生而不有， 17.為而不恃， 18.功成而弗居。 19.夫唯弗居， 20.是以不去。 In Terse English 1. Everyone, on earth, knows beauty as beauty, 2. Then, saw ugliness. 3. Everyone knows kindness as kindness, 4. Then, saw evil. 5. Therefore, 6. Solid and space coexisted; 7. Difficulty and easiness mutually succeeded; 8. Long and short mutually formed; 9. High and low mutually encompassed; 10.Melodies and songs mutually harmonized; 11.Front and back mutually trailed; 12.Always the same. 13.Sage handles matters in a natural manner(Wu Wei). 14.Gives silent instructions. 15.Let things be with no interference; 16.Grow without possession. 17.Sustain without domination. 18.Success without dwelling. 19.Because of not dwelling alone, 20.Merits do not vanish. Line 13 of Chapter 2, Wu Wei is the first time it appears.

hmm........ "For the reason" vs "make the reason" as another way to say it in English.....???

I've already grokked its quale for 'Wu-wisdom'. It was just like it says, "no wisdom"......

有生於無 The visible(you) was engendered from the invisible(wu). Wu(無) is when Tao was being invisible. You(有) is when Tao was being visible.

Chapter 1 1. 道可道，非常道。 2. 名可名，非常名。 3. 無,名天地之始。 4. 有,名萬物之母。 5. 故常無,欲以觀其妙。 6. 常有,欲以觀其徼。 7. 此兩者同出而異名， 8. 同謂之玄。玄之又玄， 9. 眾妙之門。 Revised as of 2/27/12 1. Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao. 2. A name that can be named is not an eternal name. 3. Invisible(Wu) was the name given to Tao at the origin of heaven and earth. 4. Visible(You) was the name given to Tao as the mother of all things. 5. Hence, when Tao is always invisible(wu), one would grok its quale. 6. When Tao is always visible(you), one would observe its boundary. 7. These two come from one origin but differ in name, 8. Both are regarded as unfathomable; the most occult and profound; 9. The gate of all changes. Michael..... Here is an good example how LoaTze was using Wu and You to represent the two states of Tao's presence. "Wu" is the invisible state of Tao; and "You" as the state of visible. In lines 3 and 4, Wu and You were used as proper nouns. In lines 5 and 6, wu and you were used as adjectives.

Don't you classify running, stretching, even lifting some weights as external practice....???

The way this thread was presented, it cannot lead into the concept of Wu Wei. The term "Wu_action" has already leading us to step with the wrong foot. I do agree with the Wu-state if only we are talking about Chapter 1. However, the Wu-wisdom and Wu-desire do not have the equal significant value as Wu Wei has. Wu Wei is the fundamental philosophy of the Tao Te Ching. The Wu-wisdom and Wu-desire are merely examples suggested by LoaTze to advise the rulers how to execute the concept of Wu Wei for ruling their people. The term Wu Wei is a philosophy not any kind of action. It is not advisable to combine non essential notions with the main concept of Wu Wei. PS... We need a new thread to discuss Wu Wei alone to avoid any distraction.

So, one can integrate oneself with the Universe to absorb the uni-chi for living naturally and die of natural cause...

I was going to save this for last because once we understand Wu Wei is first. Then, we will have no problem with Wei Wu Wei. Since you asked, here is the time to get it right. The character 為(wei) has two tones, wéi and wèi. wéi: for wèi: intended action wéi wu wèi is for Wu Wei. If we can understand what Wu Wei is, then we'll know that we are studying the Tao Te Ching was for Wu Wei.

Sorry, this is not yes and no. It is either yes or no. No multiple answers....Sorry again. "Wu" is not consistent throughout the TaoTeChing. Each "Wu" in some chapters has different meaning from one another. LaoTze has a unique way of using "Wu" to express himself. Wu by itself is something else than Wu Wei. "Wu Wei" by itself is different from Wu and Wei. Wu Wei is a term which patented by LoaTze so to speak. We must interpret the TTC by his meaning of the term rather than ours. It is because he wrote the TTC not us.

3rd - external exercise 4th - bring intent OUT OF lower dan tien to reduce energy.

"Unnatural action" is not the basic linguistic definition for the COMPOUND characters. However, "unnatural action" is where the Tao Te Ching goes into. That was the original thought of LaoTZe. His whole idea was based on to avoid "unnatural action". By his definition of Wu Wei is to be natural, "intended no unnatural action." As I had said before, Wu Wei is "to take no abusive action" BTW This is not my idea, my interpretation was originated from the explanation of the knowledgeable native scholars. Please do not assign any credit to my name....

To begin with, let's look at the meanings of the characters 無(wu), 為(wei) and 無為(wu wei) in the Chinese language. 1. 無(wu): not; none; non; without, doesn't have; 無(wu) is a negative word, if it was put in font of any character, it will negate the meaning of the trailing character. 2. 為(wei): intended action FYI Each characters has its basic meaning(s) individually. However, when they were put into context, the original meaning may or may be no changed. Those who do not read Chinese might not know when two characters were compounded; the initial meaning of the characters may be changed completely. Indeed, the compound characters become a special term and has a complete different meaning. 3. In the case of wu wei.... Wu Wei: no intended action, nothing has been accomplished; nothing was done; do nothing This is only the ordinary usage of the character in daily life of the common people. However, LaoTze use the term in a special way because his wisdom was out of the ordinary. He has his own meaning of Wu Wei. In order to understand what it means, one must study the Tao Te Ching to find out its actual meaning. By looking the term and breaking down the character, and do a separate interpretation of the characters was a mistake and how less one knows. What I am saying was that we should interpret the term of Wu Wei as a whole instead of interpreting the superficial meaning of each character. What that does it will only create somebody's misinterpretation; but not LaoTze's original philosophical meaning. BTW If it is so simple by looking at the characters of Wu Wei to make some erroneous assumptions about the philosophy of LaoTze, then why did LaoTze need to write eighty-one chapter to explain what Wu Wei is in his Tao Te Ching. If we, the modern people, by interpreting Wu Wei as "without action", then that would be a great insult to the wisdom of LaoTze and his philosophy. After all, LaoTze didn't write the Tao Te Ching for nothing.

You just took the words right out of my mouth...... @Aaron.... I had been explaining what Wu Wei was to you from forum to forum, thread to thread. Now, you are asking me for proof....

Aaron... It is not the way I want to translate it. I was only translating the interpretation of the knowledgeable scholars. I just gather information from a received copy of the Tao Ta Ching based on the consensus for the most accuracy. PS... I only used native sources that are written in Chinese. Any mistake in the translation into English that would be made by me. PPS... All my translation are done in the Tao Te Ching Section. And my explanation about Wu Wei was done based on the interpretations of those native scholars. They are not my own interpretation. I only study it and try to tell the people in the western world to make the correction.

How long had you been doing this so-called KSMO.....??? That might be the culprit that was causing you the so-called sexual blockages or issues.

Gladly...!!! This would require a new long thread. It shall be done in the near future....

This is only your opinion. I don't think you know what wu wei was from the beginning.

That was not a good assumption. It is worse for those who spoke English fluently because they had outside influence which effected their thinking. Besides, they may not understand classic Chinese fluently anyway. Sometimes they want their books to be the bestseller and make it to fit the taste of the westerners.

You are right. Any native Chinese would agree with that; but let's leave meditation out of this thread for now.

Maybe it was your neighbors were doing some BBQ with mustique wood.