ChiDragon

Do you think that everyone has the same wisdom as LaoTze does....??? Are you out of your mind....???

It really didn't say anything. What did you try to show here...??? FYI When it comes to classic, one cannot rely on the Etymology.

1. Ain't you lucky, you got more than what you bargained for....!!! I hope you didn't miss anything. 2. Why do you make good use of it...???

Chapter 14 Revised 14 1. 視之不見,名曰夷。 2. 聽之不聞,名曰希。 3. 摶之不得,名曰微。 4. 此三者不可致詰， 5. 故混而為一。 6. 其上不皦， 7. 其下不昧， 8. 繩繩不可名， 9. 復歸於無物。 10.是謂無狀之狀， 11.無物之象， 12.是謂惚恍。 13.迎之不見其首， 14.隨之不見其後。 15.執古之道以御今之有。 16.能知古始， 17.是謂道紀。 Translated in terse English... 1. View it couldn't see, name and call it Colorless. 2. Listen to it couldn't hear, name and call it Soundless. 3. Touch it couldn't feel, name and call it Formless. 4. These three objects are impossible to cross-examine. 5. Thus they are blended into one. 6. Its top not brilliant. 7. Its bottom nor dim. 8. Its continuance unnameable. 9. Returned to being nothingness, 10. Is called form of no form. 11. An image of nothingness, 12. Is called obscure. 13. Greet it cannot see its head. 14. Follow it cannot see its back. 15. Grasp the past of Tao to be driven all the present physical beings 16. Able to understand the ancient origin, 17. It's called the Principles of Tao. Note: Revisions are shown in bold.

Chapter 14 Revised 14 1. 視之不見,名曰夷。 2. 聽之不聞,名曰希。 3. 摶之不得,名曰微。 4. 此三者不可致詰， 5. 故混而為一。 6. 其上不皦， 7. 其下不昧， 8. 繩繩不可名， 9. 復歸於無物。 10.是謂無狀之狀， 11.無物之象， 12.是謂惚恍。 13.迎之不見其首， 14.隨之不見其後。 15.執古之道以御今之有。 16.能知古始， 17.是謂道紀。 Translated in terse English... 1. View it couldn't see, name and call it Colorless. 2. Listen to it couldn't hear, name and call it Soundless. 3. Touch it couldn't feel, name and call it Formless. 4. These three objects are impossible to cross-examine. 5. Thus they are blended into one. 6. Its top not brilliant. 7. Its bottom nor dim. 8. Its continuance unnameable. 9. Returned to being nothingness, 10. Is called form of no form. 11. An image of nothingness, 12. Is called obscure. 13. Greet it cannot see its head. 14. Follow it cannot see its back. 15. Grasp the past of Tao to be driven all the present physical beings 16. Able to understand the ancient origin, 17. It's called the Principles of Tao.

You Welcome....!!!!

yiming... Leave them alone and let it be.

Yes. 弗 is a very classical character of saying "no; not"; and 不 is the modern character was most used for "no; not".

FYI... Here is a good reference of the restored copy of the Tao Te Ching(MWD-A). Please go to page 四四九（449）for Chapter 14. 捪之而弗得， 命之曰夷 Ref: Tao Te Ching MWD-A

If one understand the meanings of those classical characters, one will know that the phrases mean the same thing. If not, one should spend more time to learn the meanings of these characters. BTW: Your ref: 德昏之而弗得命之曰夷 德 does not belong here. It was a blank space in the original. and昏 should be 捪. 捪之而弗得， 命之曰夷 捪 means "touch". 昏 means dusk; dim; confused; to faint In case someone didn't know. 弗 means 不。 In classic, 命 is the same as saying 名(to name something or someone.)。 Anymore question.....????

Yes, yiming, but you must learn to understand the principles of the Tao Te Ching, in order, to know how to live the right way...!!! If you don't understand these principles, then how are you going to live the right way...???

Chapter 14 1. 視之不見，名曰夷。 2. 聽之不聞，名曰希。 3. 摶之不得，名曰微。 Translated in terse English... 1. View it couldn't see, let's call it Colorless. 2. Listen to it couldn't hear, let's call it Soundless. 3. Touch it couldn't feel, let's call it Formless. Chapter 14 is a very typical case of classic Chinese. The last three characters, 夷 希 微, in the first three lines are very classical. Their classic meaning may not be found in any of the modern Chinese dictionaries. It is because they were already being defined in these lines. From Chapter 1, we were told that Tao is invisible. When Tao was invisible, we grok its quale. We are the qualia of Tao...??? Well, Tao is formless, colorless, and soundless. Lines 1 through 3 are self explanatory. 1. View it couldn't see, let's call it 夷(yi2). 2. Listen to it couldn't hear, let's call it 希(xi1). 3. Touch it couldn't feel, let's call it 微(wei2). Let's start with line 3, it says something that one cannot feel which implies it's 'formless'. Thus 微(wei2) is formless. Line 2, it says something that one cannot be heard which implies it's 'soundless'. Thus 希(xi1) is soundless. Line 1, it says something that one cannot feel by touch which implies it's 'colorless'. Thus 夷(yi2) is colorless. Of course, we could say line 1 as follows: Line 1, it says something that one cannot see which implies it's 'invisible' too. Thus 夷(yi2) is invisible. However, Chapter 1 had already stolen the word 'invisible' by calling Tao as 無(Wu, invisible)。 So, we ended up 夷(yi2) as 'colorless'. This is the fun part in reading and studying the TTC. It gives us an opportunity to test our wisdom by making us to think a little by our own intuition with common sense. Finally, the ultimate test was the sense of logic.

In case of any misunderstanding or disrespect. Here is the translation. "Teacher, I'm here. My name is 易明(yiming). I am here to learn classical Chinese."

yiming.... If you have anymore questions, please continue at the new thread, Class Room for Classic Chinese.

Why can't you accept "Thus no cannot cure"? Okay, if this is your translation, then what is the meaning of this or your interpretation....??? "不 治" cannot be treated as noun because it is an adjective.

When personality strikes, nothing matters; all reasoning, idealism, wisdom, knowledge and virtue are gone to hell.

In Chinese Buddhism, Enlightenment releases all suffering.

....................a blind learning from a blind............ PS.... Who says I am not a blind but only with my eyes open....???

reen... Do you know how many times the DDJ has been altered in the past two thousand years history....??? I would not consider this is a waste of energy to iron out some reconcilable differences. It not, it is okay too. I can see that we all have our own sources. I agree that the first source of ours is hard to let go as a standard. I do realize that we do have differences in thinking, culture, language, and most of all is our personality. Personality is the hardest thing to overcome in any matter. Normally, that was the area where we ended up having the argument comes to a halt. When personality strikes, there was nothing can move forward again but just hung in thin air.

Here comes the personalization again; and that is where the authentic originality gets lost. And all this talk how much we know about Wu Wei is no longer visible. Peace to all....

rene... If you are not too upset, I would like to add this to your flavor... 18 1. 大道廢，有仁義。 2. 智慧出，有大偽。 3. 六親不和，有孝慈。 4. 國家昏亂，有忠臣。 In line 2 of Chapter 18 智慧 is proper term for wisdom.

Okay....it was understood that the both characters are interchangeable. I made the change was to illustrate that would be the correct format by following the modern Chinese standard for clarity. If one has to rewrite it, I definitely would make that change.

FYI... Phlegm is the mucus which collects the dust and bacteria in the respiratory tract. When phlegm was formed, it will cause agitation to spit it out your system.

Sorry, rene. It was not that I don't agree with Wang's idea regarding Wu-wisdom (無知) , or that 知=wisdom and 智=knowledge. Somehow, It was Wang had the definitions reversed. I don't know why he did not follow the modern Chinese standard. That is not fine for me to participate in this discussion with integrity. Yes you are right, then continuing has no value. Do you see the dilemma, here, when we talking about the terms....???

yiming..... So what is your actual question....??? Anyway, Classic Chinese is not that vague as you thought it might be rather it was the interpreter was vague about it.