ChiDragon

If one follows the modern definition above, anything has to do with wisdom, intelligence and cleverness; then 智(zhi4) is the character to be used. Anyway, this is the basic rule. I will use this rule to check the consistency in the context for 知 and 智. Let's use this example again. 3 恒使民 無知、無欲也， Always let the people to have no knowledge(無知) of cunning(scheming, cheating...etc) No desire(無欲) to steal(rob, loot..etc). Note: no knowledge(無知) of cunning(scheming, cheating...etc) requires cleverness. Therefore, the above should read as follows: 3 恒使民 無智、無欲也， Always let the people to have no cleverness(無智) in cunning(scheming, cheating...etc) No desire(無欲) to steal(rob, loot..etc).

Yes, I understand that. Anyway, it wasn't relevant in this discussion . Now, I have completed my post in the above.

ahhhhhhhh...rene Yes, I have no problem with "知 and 智 are often used interchangeably in many ancient Chinese classics." The meaning for both characters can be easily determined within the classic context. Anyway, only in modern Chinese has a distinction between the two. Let's look at Chapter 3 無知... Let's analyse this 無知. Your interpretation is contrary to the popular statement that Laotzu intended to make people ignorant and without desires. You are on the right track. Yes, LaoTze did not encourage the people to seek positive wisdom nor to be ignorant because the people have their own choice for what they wanted to be. I don't think main concern was about that. Based what has been said, it would be a more appropriate to translate it as: 3 恒使民 無知、無欲也， Always let the people to have no knowledge(無知) of cunning(scheming, cheating...etc) No desire(無欲) to steal(rob, loot..etc). 無知, here, means no knowledge of 5. 言有宗, 6. 事有君。 7. 夫唯無知也, 8. 是以我不知。 5. Words has an origin. 6. Matter has its root. 7. Because others don't understand these reasons, 8. Thus that's why they don't understand me. Lines 7 and 8 have to be interpreted within context with lines 5 and 6. 7. Because others don't understand(無知) these reasons(lines 5 & 6), 8. Thus that's why they don't understand(無知) me. 無知 in these two lines means don't understand.

You did indeed.

rene.... I am going to tell like it is. What threw me off was this. The Tao Te Ching was written based on the philosophy of Wu Wei(無為). In a way, I agree that Wu Wei(無為), Wu Zhi(無知) and Wu Yue( 無欲) can be considered as a state of Wu. From the OP, I don't see how Wu Zhi(無知) was defined here. I know Wu Wei(無為) and Wu Yue( 無欲) can be considered to be the state of Wu for Tao, not in a sense of invisible, but just being its natural self. However, Wu Zhi(無知) is not a state of Wu nor the positive nature of Tao but only for the people as suggested by LaoTze. Before, I go any further. rene, Did Dr. Wang or you define what is the meaning of Wu-wisdom....??? I need to know his or your definition of Wu-wisdom before I continue. Thanks.

rene, hi Thank you...!!! It's sure make a difference with the minds of two people were met in synchronization when comes to understanding.

Sorry....rene....!!!

To be honest with you. Your posts are getting too personal. I had lost all my interest in dealing with your comments. This will be my last response to you. I don't really care what you think. Wu Wei or not, I am done with you. Period. Based on these comments is reasonable enough to discourage myself to continue with this......!!!!

rene... Wow, this is a big turn in the State of Wu. I have gone over those chapters that you had listed. Now, I know what do you mean by the State of Wu which is the same as described in Chapter one all along. I am glad to go over each line which describes that Tao was invisible as in the State of Wu this time around. Thank you. Edited to add: PS..... Just in case, you are wondering why I had over looked at your list of chapters. It was because I had found some contradictory statements in the rest of the OP which threw me off.

Wise....... I will see to that your advice has been met. Thanks.

Pursue it only if you have an open-mind. If this is only a one-man notion, then it is not worth to pursue to prevent one from being a fanatic follower. PS.... This is only MMHO.

"Wu Wei" and "No Action" are both as confusing as in Chinese and English and all other languages. However, whomever uses the term was assumed that one knows its concept or philosophy behind it. The concept of Wu Wei in the Tao Te Ching but not one's own definition.

I may follow the concept of Wu Wei as accused. If I don't, then that will be my first time of the miss usage of it. Just for your benefit of the doubt, I will remain silence and let the true meaning of the Tao Te Ching continue to be jeopardized. Thus I will leave myself defendless to maintain its integrity of the Tao Te Ching. However, I will be no long be your stalker with good reasons that you cannot come up with a better rebuttal.

Okay.............. Ask me the next question....!!!

shi yi sheng ren wu wei, gu wu bai; wu zhi, gu wu shi. 是以聖人無為 故無敗， 無執故無失。 Because of a sage is Wu Wei, Therefore he has no failure, No obstinacy thus no loss.

yiming.... You are a good student. Why do I want to throw you out....??? It was just a friendly kick to charge you up for the mood in your study of the Tao Te Ching.....

The words have special meaning within context in each chapter of the Tao Te Ching. The context is not my, yours nor someone else. If you choose to use any word to make your point, then there is no need to pull it our from the context in the TTC. Why even bother to go there in the first place....??? You may pick any word from thin air...!!! PS..... Using quote from others which indicates to me that one doesn't have enough confidence to use one's own definition.

Yes....!!! It was called the detoxication. Actually, you were going through a process of detoxication.

wow..... You are making progress.....!!!....

I see you are just pulling the words out of the text and put them out of context to be in your favor as intended. Anyway, intention is not quite Wu Wei.

yiming.... Let me tell you this. If you want to know the whole picture, you have to put the puzzles together. If you want to learn the Tao Te Ching, then you have to read all the chapters to know what Wu Wei means and keep it in your heart. BTW You don't tell anybody about the Tao Te Ching if one doesn't know a thing about it. Besides, the Tao Te Ching is esoteric and let's keep it esoteric. If you are not serious about learning it, then stay away from it.

Please keep in mind, the Tao Te Ching is a classic. It is about ruling the people but not curing the people.

The word "rewards" does not exist in the Concept of Wu Wei. Please try to understand Chapter 5. PS... Please don't forget that Marblehead is a two-headed snake.....

Sorry. I can't accept that. Second thought, I would like to revise my initial translation to include the term "Wu Wei": 為「無 為」，則 無 不 治。 For Wu Wei, then(則) there is nothing that cannot be done. Edited to add: 不 治 may have the meaning of incurable but not "uncontrollable". 無 不 治 may have the meaning of nothing that is not incurable.

Wrong.....!!!!