ChiDragon

Here are the true Chinese Taoists. They had labeled themselves as a Taoist by their attires. A Young Martial Arts Taoist A Elder Taoist with a fan in his hand

As I had told you from the beginning, you have never learned the Chinese the correct way. Please don't learn your Chinese from her....!!! 盈 means FULL. Period. It is not "to make it full". Only a fool would "that which is constantly being filled" to spill to fit the definition that you want. Now, come on. Where is your sense of logic....???

I see where the misunderstanding was coming from. "Overflow" was a big mistake in the original translation. This character was never meant to be "overflow" in the past nor in the present. PS.... This will be my last response to any of your translations.

Full is full; Overflow is overflow. When it was full may not be overflow. However, when it was too full then it may be overflow. This is not an argument here. It is only a manner of who was reading the text. It makes a lot of difference between a Chinese and a non-Chinese that read the Chinese text. I think you did ask me how to read Classic Chinese once before. I thought you have some faith in me. PS... Let's not play copy cats here to learn somebody else's mistakes. Please read my signature.

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What a wild assumption that was.....??? Let's put it this way, if the people don't know it or don't practice it may not be getting such idea. BTW Somebody in the thread has no problem with that.

It is obvious that the culprit was the drinking on the weekends.

Stosh... You are a gentleman and a scholar. You have my highest regard. Yes, I am contend that the final line of this ( and other passages ) is the culminating aspect. If I revise the following you will know what I meant. 1. Wu Wei 1. Take no action 2. Take no abusive action 3. Take no abusive action to interfere 4. Take no abusive action to interfere with the course of Nature. You see there is a tremendous language barrier here. If we keep the Chinese term as Wu Wei, then there is no problem. We must treat the term Wu Wei as the name of the philosophy. The philosophy is "Take no abusive action to interfere with the course of Nature." The translation in English as "take no action" is the closest translation but it is the worse. Hence, the complete philosophical meaning of Wu Wei was lost in the translation. What was the hidden meaning for Wu Wei is to "let Nature take its course". Thus Wu Wei means to be "natural", ziran(自然) . 1. Abusive: Anything that is negative causing an adverse effect of the outcome. 2. Course of Nature: Natural occurrence without interference; ziran(自然)

This is all depends how long had they been practicing. We didn't know what level of practice these 5 people were in. We cannot expect one does it in few days or weeks and expect to have great results. If people have not had any Chi Kung experience like practiced for a long time, they better not expect that they can perform like a tiger. Unfortunately, they may hurt themselves and still don't know what happened. After this leisure performance, people with long time energy cultivation practice, their bodies will rejuvenate themselves a lot quicker than a non-practitioner. In addition, they can almost go into the cultivation immediately because their bodies were well equip and ready to create more energy.

Lohan Fist(羅漢拳) is Shaolin Buddhist style Kung Fu. Mo Pai(???派) is Taoist style. PS... Does any body know what is the Chinese character for 'Mo'....???

H.E... So, you did put some effort into learning Chinese......

The whole theme of the Tao Te Ching was based on the concept of Wu Wei. Here are the steps of the logic: 1. Take no action 2. Take no abusive action 3. Take no abusive action to interfere 4. Take no abusive action to interfere with the course of Nature. Now, back on course.......

Yes, exactly, very good...!!! I do agree it was understood. However, for discussion sake, it was impossible not to mention them to bring out the true Taoists. A Taoist was judged by his/her character not by the label. Even though you had labeled yourself as a Taoist, but I am not judging you by the label to agree that you are a Taoist. Indeed, I do agree that you are a Taoist by the revelation of your words.

"I also felt some asthma symptoms." How is your breathing....?? How deep can you breathe....??? "What relationship is there b/w body's hormonal cycle and the dan tien?" There is no relationship b/w the body's hormonal cycle and the dan tien. BTW The dan tien does not open up like they say. It's only a fallacy. You can do your Chi Kung at anytime. It was like that you are doing your breathing; do you ever stop breathing...??? Chi Kung is only enhancing your respiratory system. Thus you can do your Chi Kung exercise anytime.

Work in progress..... 引證《黃庭經》本文 上有魂靈下關元，左為少陽右太陰；後有密戶前生門，出日入月呼吸存。〈內景經第二章〉 上有黃庭下關元，前有幽闕後命門。〈外景經第一章〉 黃庭真人衣朱衣，關門牡籥闔兩扉；幽闕俠之高巍巍，丹田之中精氣微。〈外景經第二章〉 解釋 (Explanation): 「魂 靈」即心神: The spirit of the heart(the mind). 「關元」在臍下三寸，左陽右陰，言其理耳: "Guan Yuan" is 3 inches(Sino unit) below the navel, left is Yang and right is Yin 若必求藏府經絡部位以實之，恐近於穿鑿： We must use the locations of the meridians to be accurate 「密戶」在身後腰部，「生門」即臍： "Mi Hu", dense gate, is located in the lower bank, 「生門」(ming men), life gate, is the navel. 涵虛子云：「合上下前 後左右，暗藏一個中字」: 涵虛子 said: upper, lower, left and right, there was a character 中(Zhong) , within(center) , 此「中」乃虛無竅也： "Within" means hollow without any gaps. 外日月一往一來： Externally, the Sun and the Moon, one comes and the other goes 內日月一顛一倒： Internally, the Sun and the Moon, one goes up and the other comes down 綿綿呼吸，均在此虛無竅中： Breathing softly, it was all done within this hollow space. 今按：呼為出，吸為入；出為闢，入為闔；闢為 陽，闔為陰；陽為日，陰為月，故曰：「出日入月呼吸存」。 Annotation： Exhale means exit, inhale means enter; exit implies opened, enter implies closed; open is Yang, Close is Yin; Yang is Sun, Yin is Moon, therefore, it was said to be "Exit the Sun enter the Moon, the breath exists." 黃 庭之下，即是關元： Below Huang Ting, there is Quan Yuan(an acupoint ) 關元之上，即是黃庭： Above Quan Yuan, there is Huang Ting 故曰：「上有黃庭下關元」： Then it was said to be that "Huang Ting is above and Quang Yuan is below. 〈內景經〉云：「上有魂靈下關元」，則謂黃庭之上有心神，黃庭之下有關元耳。辭雖異， 而義同: The Nei Jing says: There is the spiritual soul is on top and the Quang Yuan is below; then it was said on top of Huang Ting is "the spirit of the heart." The "spirit of the heart", 心神(xin shen), is a classic terminology for the "mind" 「幽闕」即生門： 「幽闕」 is the "life gate(ming men)." 「生門」即臍： "Ming men" is the navel. It was called the "life gate" is because that is where the food and oxygen were fed through by the umbilical cord in the mother womb. 針灸家名為「神闕」，又名「氣舍」： The acupuncturist call it 神闕」and also "Chi She" 「命門」即密戶，在背脊骨第十四椎下，即第二腰椎骨之部： Ming men was also know as Mi Hu (密戶). It is located at the L2 of the lumbar in the spinal cord. The paragraph below was not translated due to its obscurity. 修 煉家以心神注守黃庭，名曰「黃庭真人」。心色本赤，故曰「衣朱衣」。神入氣中，氣包神外，如牝牡之相銜，故曰「牡籥」。「闔兩扉」者，喻陰陽相紐。「高巍 巍」者，即《參同契》所云：「先天地生，巍巍尊高」之意。「丹田」者，乃結丹之所，如播種子於田中，自然生苗結實，成熟可期，故名曰「田」。「精氣微」之 微字，最宜領會，必如易教之潔淨精微，老氏之微妙玄通，方盡其用。蓋丹道雖不外乎積精累氣而成，然徒知執著精氣之麤跡，將何以臻神化哉？ 附注：後世丹書所言黃庭之部位，與本經微有不同。

1. It is not worth to learn this skill in our modern time. 2. Yes, iron fist can damage someone's internal organ and can kill someone instantly. 3. If you practice any form of martial arts or chi kung, it will help to prevent osteoarthritis. 4. I am sure you will loose some effects if you are out of practice. 5. No one can answer this question. It depends on your own physical condition and self discipline.

@fizix... I'm totally agree with you....!!! @OldGreen... What make you so sure.....???

Hahahaha.... What made you think that I deserved such a gushing compliment.....??? Please retract your statement. PS... Second though, I had misread your statement. But I still like to read it with my original misunderstanding. Of course, that was not very Taoist like....

For my understanding, someone was trying to defend a book that he is so fond of. The book was about Embryonic Breathing. I was only asking what it was but he did not give me a direct answer. If he was so familiarized with the book, then he would have had given me a direct answer instantly about the EB process. Since you are always given me some smart answer in a half-S format, let's see if you can answer me how the EB process was done.... PS.... Please don't ask me to read a whole book....

Now is time to translate the above for clarification. 現傳《黃庭經》有內景、外景、中景三種。 Nowadays, people are spreading that there are three kinds of images in "Huang Ting Jing", Internal Image(內景), External Image(外景), Middle Image(中景). Most people thought of the Middle Image(中景) came out later; therefore, the Middle Image was not included in the original Huang Ting Jing. In a Chapter 樑丘子's annotation said: 黃為中央之色(Yellow is the central color) 庭為四方之中(Ting is the center of the four directions.) External(外) was referred as within heaven(天中), within earth(地中) and within human(人中); Internal(內) was referred as within the brain(腦中), within the heart(心中) and within the spleen(脾中). Therefore, it was called "Hunag Ting(黃庭)". The heart, resides inside the body, observing the holistic view inside the body, Therefore, it was called the Internal View. The so-called the Internal View(內景) of the Huang Ting, actually, it was the generated images(景象) during the practice in the Taoist religion..... Note: 1. The "internal view" should be translated as the "internal images". Maybe it makes more sense in English to call it "internal view". 2. The rest of the text was not translated because it was describing the history of the document. Thus it was omitted.

I am sorry to make you lost your cool. This is not how one would be expected to have a discussion ended in an inconclusive manner. I hope we'll be more prepared and handled things in a mature manner next time. Peace.

First of all, as a rule of thumb, one do not and cannot interpret any Chinese Taoist Classic with the ordinary linguistic meaning of the characters. The Chinese Taoists have a set of definitions for their own terms. The terms that they use may not have the same meaning as in our daily lives. Let's take dan tian for example, if the term was used alone without specified as upper, middle or lower; then it was understood it was the lower dan tien. The dan tien was often referred as lower dan tien by most/all Chi Kung practitioners. The most common term was used in Chi Kung as 氣沉丹田(sink chi to the dan tian). By the Taoist definition, it means to have the abdomen fully expanded while inhale during breathing exercise. I think most westerners still do not realize that is what it means. The three dan tien(s) were used by the people in the TCM to describe the different parts of the body. I don't know have you read my Huang Ting Jing thread in the 道家學說 - Dào Jiā Xué Shuō Section. http://www.thetaobum...mp;#entry349670 「黃」乃土色，土位中央； "Huang" is the color of earth, the position of earth is in the center(by definition of the Yi Jing ). Huang(yellow) is the official color for earth(soil) in the Five Elements. 「庭」乃階前空地。名為黃庭，即表中空之義。 "Ting" is an empty space in front of the steps. Thus Huang Ting comprise the meaning of empty space in the center. Regardless how we look at the term "Huang Ting", whether we like it or not, just bite our tongues; it means dan tien to a Chinese Taoist. Since there was no uniform standard in the Taoist society, the meanings do change between group from group. However, the term was used within the same area but perhaps it may be slightly off in meaning.

Perhaps it was for some individuals but it was not so for the advanced Chi Kung practitioners.