ChiDragon

roteff.... "So i'm most curious about this falun that is being placed or grows in your dantien. I don't really know what to make of it." This is just all talks. Chi Kung is Chi Kung. When somebody put a modifier in front of it, somebody will say whatever that is will be in your dan tian. Don't worry, you will not be placed or grown something in you abdomen.

1. What is this mean...??? 01 天地不仁, tiān dì bù rén, Heaven and Earth do not distinguish between one man and another 2. 人類 "human kind" is not a classical term. It is a modern term. LaoTze talks about all people, what 100 families did you refer to....??? LaoTze had never mentioned the 100 families anywhere in the Tao Te Ching.

Why don't you quit while you are ahead and save some cyber space for the main course of the thread......

Tai Chi in small space

Chapter 43 無有入無間 The invisible force enters a none hollow space. 無有(wu you), LaoTze was using them as an invisible force because of the verb 入(enter). In order for something to enter a solid body, it has to be some kind of force and invisible. 無: none 間: space, a gap in between. Again, 無(wu) here was used to negate "space" to make "space" become solidify. Thus 無間 means "non-space".

Chapter 19 盜賊無有 There will be no thieves and bandits. The 有(you) in this chapter means "to have" and 無(wu) means "not". 無(wu) was used to negate 有(you). Thus 無有 means "not have" or "have not". Note: In general, 無(wu) means "not" is to negate any verb or change a positive thought to a negative as in any other language. However, LaoTze used 無(wu), in some special cases, in a very clever way throughout the Tao Te Ching.

Chapter 11 故有之以為利， 無之以為用。 Therefore, when there is 有(you), it is its benefit, and 無(wu) is its function. LaoTze uses 有(you) as the tangible parts and 無(wu) as the intangible parts. The 有(you), the tangible part, is like spokes and the hub, utensils, doors and windows. The 無(wu), the intangible part, is like the hollow space in the described tangible parts.

Chapter 2 有無相生 有(you) and 無(wu) are mutually engender each other. The 有(you) and 無(wu) in Chapter 2 were referred as the same 有(you) and 無(wu) in Chapter 1.

The clever ways of how LaoTze uses the characters wu(無) and you(有) to express himself throughout the TTC. Chapter 1 1. 無，名天地之始。 2. 有，名萬物之母。 To describe the state of Tao by LaoTze: 1. At the beginning of the universe, he called Tao as 無(wu). 2.At the time when Tao become the mysterious female as the mother of all things, he called Tao as 有(you).

Very good, I agreed to all with the minor correction in bold.

虛 其 心， 實 其 腹， 弱 其 志， 強 其 骨。 8. Emptied one's heart, 9. Solidified one's belly, 10. Weaken one's volition, 11. Strengthen one's bone, It was meant to be kept the people to have a pure mind, to feed them well and make them healthy. It was for: 常使民無知、無欲，使夫智者不敢為也。 Keeping the people innocent and lack of malicious thoughts, lack of desire. So, even those with cleverness in a cunningly manner cannot commit their acts.

You welcome PPagan: "isometric qigong" means slight muscle contraction like sitting down in any one of the three lotus position. The legs muscles are automatically slightly contracted. Based on this notion, any movement with the arms will contribute an additional effect of the muscle contraction. All movements must be done slowly while breathing slowly. It would be something like having the slow and deep breathing follow the movements of the arms or the movements of the arms follow the breathing. Do not pay any attention to the tan tian because the deep breathing will take care of that by itself. However, If some of the patients cannot do deep breathing, then have them breathe as deep as they can and stop there and then exhale slowly. The object is to breathe as much as oxygen as possible into the lungs for the blood to circulate it to the body cells. The reason for breathing slowly is to allow ample of time for the red blood cells to collect more oxygen. If there was not enough time given for the red blood cells, then the unused port of the oxygen will be exhaled. It would be considered a waste of oxygen from the previous inhalation. The reason for the slow movements of the arms is to have the muscles to contract slightly to speed up the rate of cell respiration or metabolism. In addition, the slow movement is to give the body cells a chance to use up the oxygen for converting the glucose into more ATP energy. Thus, this is the basic function of the human body and this is how Chi Kung works, at least, to me anyway.

仁(ren): benevolence; mercy 人(ren): people; human; person You see the phonetics are play tricks on you. Now, I see why you say 仁(ren) as "man" in your OP. Thus, with the misunderstanding of one character will send your translation ten thousand miles away from the true meaning in the context. PS... Yes, I am difficult to deal with as you said but I have my legitimate reasons. PPS... 萬人 would be one way to say "all people." I know you got the idea from 萬物(all things). Unfortunately, 萬人 does not say "all people" but it means "ten thousand people" in this case. You see, this kind of things one has to know in advance for reading classic or Chinese. My suggestion to you is not to jump into the translation so hasty but study the Tao Te Ching objectively with an open mind just like Marblehead.

When reading the Tao Te Ching, you must ask yourself. Am I going to read it in English thinking, Chinese thinking or read it as Classic...??? Obvious, the Tao Te Ching was written in Classic, then let's read it as Classic. There are certain rules one must follow in order to read it and interpret it correctly. Thus, once again, it doesn't make sense (at least in English) of the meaning to merely say "the people are treated as straw dogs." Hey, do you think that make sense to a Chinese. Again, this is Classic Chinese. The Classics are written in a paradoxical way. Anyone can read it and doesn't make sense. That is the unique part of it. To understand it is a big challenge for someone who wants to learn to read it. Classic were written in metaphors just like a riddle. In order to read it correctly, first of all, one must know the classic meaning of the terms and the punctuations at the right place. If 百姓 means "people", then it means "people", not "hundred names" even that's what the characters say. One just has to accept it as is. It you are treating it as "hundred names", then you might as well close the book and go copy somebody else mistranslation. In order to interpret "the people are treated as straw dogs", one must know what are the characteristics of straw dogs. Why did LaoTze say such thing....??? We know LaoTze is a nice guy; but why did he say something that he didn't really mean it or it was meant something else ....??? It would be a big mistake to think what I want it to mean rather than what LaoTze meant. Therefore, please don't read it as modern Chinese nor English but Chinese Classic.

Sunday.......

rene.... I will take the opportunity per your offer from another thread to place the clever way of LaoTze in using the wu and you here. I have found something that is quite interesting from Chapters 1, 2, 11, 19, 32, 43, 46, 48 and 75.

Yes, a language difference or problem indeed...!!! 百姓 is an ancient term for "people". I'm sorry. Your translation is very contradictory to the title of this thread. PS... A good fire will never stop burning. Thanks....

Thanks for the moon cake. But I have cut down on my sugar diet.... I only eat about 3 to 4 a year during the autumn mood festival with oolong tea, from Taiwan, of course.

PPagan... It was my dream to get involve with research in helping people to fight cancer. I was thinking how many known Chi Kung practitioners are die of cancer. So far, I heard none. After many years of practicing Tai Ji and Chi Kung. I make some study on my own by some factual materials and came up with a conceptual idea about fighting cancer. I know cancer cells do not like oxygen but love sugar. Based on some biological facts, the body cells use the oxygen that we breath to convert glucose from the foods we took into energy for the body to function. Fortunately, practicing Chi Kung will help us to breathe more oxygen and convert most of the glucose into energy. What that says which gives me the notion that Chi Kung is actually fighting the cancer cells. The idea was cancer cells do not like oxygen but Chi Kung is breathing more oxygen to go against them. In addition, cancer cells like sugar. However, the Chi Kung helps to burn up the glucose for body energy instead of leaving it for the cancer cells. The best of all, the biochemical energy, adenine triphosphate(ATP), was used to manufacture the white blood cells to get rid of cancer cells. The cancer patients are pretty weak to practice any strenuous exercise. It is better for them to do sitting mediation with lots of deep breathing exercise like isometric Chi Kung. Those who are in little better condition is best for them to do some isotonic Chi Kung with slow movements.

Okay, I had to read it a few times to get the gist of what you are saying. I'll have to settle it as an indirect translation....

What did you say that was similar to that.....???

I believe that LaoTze had said that Tao existed before any god in Chapter 4.

1. Sorry, I didn't see anything in your post was conveying the same message. 2. There was really too much to say without any undesirable embarrassment on our parts, thus I decided to hold back on my criticism. Perhaps I had made too many enemies already.

百 姓 was a classical term for 人 民 under the feudal rulers in the ancient during the Zhou Dynasty. Under feudal ruling, there wasn't that many people. Maybe only around hundred families. Perhaps there were only around hundred surnames among the families of the people. Therefore, the people were referred as 百 姓 at the time. Yes, I only like the teas from mainland China. Are you eating your 月餅 in advance...??? It was for: 常使民無知、無欲，使夫智者不敢為也。 Keep the people innocent and lack of malicious thoughts, lack of desire. So, even those with cleverness in a cunningly manner cannot commit their acts.

Pardon me! I didn't know that was your own inventions. No wonder it was understood beyond the senses. Sorry, it was really fascinating and beyond my comprehension. Go ahead, I will leave you alone....