ChiDragon

No, I guess not. Cat meows are natural instinct, so is the way they use their claws to fight......

rene... I thought you might surface for this. You see there are many ways of using the meaning of Wu. In Taoism and Buddhism due the difference in thinking the meanings of Wu are completely out of phase. However, the way that LaoTze use it is very clever. It the reader was not careful, then it will be misled oneself from one meaning to another. The way LoaTze uses "wu" was in many clever ways. He has it different from character to character, line to line, chapter to chapter. One cannot assume its meaning was uniform based on a similar case in the use of "wu". I think after this thread, we should have a separate thread to look into what each Wu means in different context. Wu-wei 無為 is one term and stand alone, the other two cannot be treated the same way as Wu Wei. This is totally incorrect to group them as in a same fashion as in Wu Wei. Wu-Yue 無欲 means no desire. and Wu-zhi 無知 means ignorance. Sorry, I cannot accept Wang's and Wu's presentation. PS... As you can see, in Chapter one, the characters were used independently for the states of Tao as 'Wu' and 'You' are stand alone.

How can I accept this translation from one of my fella countryman. Obviously, he had a great English influence in his translation. "The act of Wu" What he was saying, in the effect, is the "act of none". And what the hell is the "act of none" meant....???

5. Teaching without words In a higher level of interpretation for the Classic Text which means: An advice was given for rulers to issue fewer decrees to minimize the burden for the people. Note: People just read this line superficially really has no meaning applied to it at all. In the same token, people who are translating the superficial meaning of the characters 無為(wu wei) as "non doing" without knowing the actual philosophy behind the term was a real pity too IMO.

Zi Ren simply means "natural" Wu Wei was meant to "let nature take its course" which it was being ZiRen(natural). Wu Wei is a philosophical idea and ZiRen was being a descriptive noun to tell what Wu Wei is. Another words, anyone was being Wu Wei which implies that someone was being having a natural way of doing things. Literally, ZiRen is a synonym of Wu Wei. Wang's translation: We thus know the benefit of acting with Wu. He translated Wu Wei as "the acting with Wu" which indicates that he did not know what Wu Wei is. The problem with using someone's translation in the past without any update, IMO, is not very unreliable for a foreign reader without a full understand of the language and cultural background.

Chapter 43 1. 天 下 之 至 柔 ， 2. 馳 騁 天 下 之 至 堅 。 3. 無 有 入 無 間 ， 4. 吾 是 以 知 無 為 之 有 益 。 5. 不 言 之 教 ， 6. 無 為 之 益 7. 天 下 希 及 之 。 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4. Because of that, I know the benefit of Wu Wei 5. Teaching without words 6. The benefit of Wu Wei. 7. There is no comparison with it in the world. Lines 4 through 7 were saying that LaoTze knows the benefit of Wu Wei by assuming the reader knew what Wu Wei was. Indeed, he had given a clue at the beginning, lines 1 through 3, of the chapter. 1. The extreme softness in the world. 2. Manipulates the extreme hardness of the world. 3. Formless enters non-space. He was referring that the water is the extreme softness in the world. What he was suggesting is to use benevolent ruling(softness) to rule the people rather than tyrannical(hardness). The interpretation of this chapter does required some thinking and inductive reasoning with some knowledge from the previous chapters.

Sorry, my mistake. This thread is about the applications of Wu Wei in the related chapters. It is rather late to go into the definition of Wu Wei at this stage. Any statement make here will be the revelation of the level of understanding per each individual. Please don't just throw out some terms but give sufficient reasoning to substantiate your point. Wu Wei was basically understood to be ZiRen and there is no doubt about that. This was the basic knowledge that we had been discussed many times before and it is nothing new. In order to show how one understood Wu Wei is to move on without anymore unnecessary distraction to this thread. Using Wu Wei as the reason for one was not being Wu Wei still did not prove any point at all. Therefore, shall we stay within the relevancy in the subject of interest....???

I still don't know what this thread is all about....!!!

How do we know Christian is a 'he' or a 'she'.....???

偷 is a verb; It means to steal. It also can be used as a noun. Like 小偷 as a small thief. A 小偷 only steal behind one's back. 盜 is a noun; it means a big thief(大盜). It also can be used as a verb. In this phrase, 盜 was used as a noun. 不 貴 難 得 之 貨，使 民 不 為 盜﹔ Do not value the unobtainable goods, let the people not to become bandits(盜). A 盜 commit a more serious crimes like robbing people in front their eyes with weapons.

Please go argue your translations about something else in the Tao Te Ching section. This thread it about the concept of Wu Wei in the different chapters. Thank you very much for your cooperation...!!!

"Is a Wu Wei (無 為) attitude too idealistic and not practical to carry out?..... If we are married and our wife is corrupted and strive for what she thinks is good, how can we avoid losing tranquility and peacefulness? Do we remain silent and non-interferring? " Yes, it would be too idealistic and not practical to carry out if you are not alone. You just do what you can to keep it at minimal. If something is not too serious but can be comprised on your part, then you can remain silence and not interfere with it. Try not to have things to do it your way on demand which will avoid lots of conflicts between you and her. If she doesn't understand the Wu Wei concept as you do, I would say there will be trouble ahead. "Maybe, we too have been similarly corrupted with the concept of relativity. How can we find out if" If you have a great urge to fulfill all your desires without considering a second thought about Wu Wei, then you are corrupted with the concept of relativity.

LaoTze start saying there were beauty and kindness; then, the concept of ugliness and evil were being emerged. Since people's thinking had been corrupted with the concept of relativity, then they begin to assign value to matters by their own judgement. If there was no rich(有), than there will be no poor(無). If there was difficulty, than there will no easiness to get the job done.. If there was no long, than there will be no shortness to show the difference in length. if there was no noble, than there will be no peasant to be encompassed each other If there was no voice, than there will be no tone to be harmonize with each other It there was no front, than there will be no back to be followed by each other. Since they have those concepts of relativity, they will begin to realize what is good or bad for them. They will evade what they thought was bad for them and strive for what they thought was good for them by all means. Hence, the world will loose its tranquility and peacefulness. Only a sage can integrate with the great Tao and adept at following the course of Nature. With a Wu Wei attitude in handling all affairs and matters, and remain silence by not interfering, possessing, dominating, and vainglorious, thus his merits of accomplishment are everlasting in history. Of course, this was what not a sage was hoping for. Indeed, it was only the people who are having high regard for him and paid him with the highest respect.

"ren wei" as benevolent action to be exact.

The "Three Pure Ones" Three Pure Ones The "Three Stars Gods" Three Stars Gods The "Kitchen Gods" The Kitchen Gods

Sorry, my bad... Guan Yu(關羽) is Guan Gong(關公). You do have it in the center. The one on the left is the God of Happiness. The one on the right is the God of Longevity.

YM is correct about the three statues. Sorry to say, the figure, Guan Yu, you tried to get initially is not there.

Of course not, you are not a Buddhist but even a Taoist may not handle that sometimes. You did claim that you are a Taoist, did you...???

shang de wu wei er wu yi wei. xia de wu wei er you yi wei. shang ren wei zhi er wu yi wei. 5. 上德 [無為] 而無以為。 6. 下德 [無為] 而有以為。 7. 上仁為之而無以為。 Translation: 5. High virtue with "Wu Wei" but not intentional. 6. Low virtue with "Wu Wei" but intentional. 7. The ultimate act of benevolence initially was not intentional but natural.

It is full of space. I cannot see the air nor emptiness but I saw space. The physical emptiness is different from the mental emptiness of Buddhism. The emptiness in the cup is not the same emptiness as in the heart of a Buddhist. The emptiness in the heart of a Buddhist is non-materialistic. The eyes of a Buddhist saw gourmet foods on the table but not in his heart. The eyes of a Buddhist saw a seductive beauty in front of him but not in his heart.

Yes, Tao is absolute but not us humans. The best one can do is try to be Wu Wei whenever possible.

隨 here means "follow whatever it was permissible". Combined with another character 隨 時 , it becomes "chuih si" meaning "anytime". 隨 時 means: anytime; let it happen as time permits. Combined with yet another character 隨 便 , it becomes "chuih been" meaning "as you wish". 隨 便 means: as you wish; let it happen at your convenience.

前 後 相 隨: Translation: The front and back mutually follow each other. 隨 in this phrase means follow.

Let's put it this way. If things are too idealistic, sometimes they are not easy to be carried out. BTW A ruler tried Confucius ideals for a very short time but it did not work out and failed right away.

Sorry, you had mistranslated the character 後. 後: back; rear. 前 後 相 隨: The front and back mutually follow each other. It was implying that if you were going back and forth, your front and back are always in the same position on your body and they are never apart.