ChiDragon

Now, we had finished the study the Tao Te Ching. I had learned that Tao is identifiable with one word "Tao" or "tao" and many chapters of the Tao Te Ching. The simplest principle to follow is "Wu Wei", 無為. Wu Wei is to follow the course of Nature or let Nature take its course. Hence, we can go a long way from here begin with the first step.

Here is my final translation: Beautiful words are not true....

IMO... Running away is not a solution to a problem. Avenge is not a solution neither. If one come to a Taoist forum without any effort to learn to endure others with some tolerances, then it would be defeating the purpose of the forum. Please don't forget, some people are not yet as open as you are.

Would you still be offended if the word "dirt" changed to "dust"....???

福生无量天尊(Fu sheng wu liang tianzun): The unlimited happiness producing patriarch.

Chapter 81 1. True words are not beautiful. 3. Beautiful words are not true. 3. One who is kind does not quarrel. 4. One who quarrels is not kind. 5. One who is profound is not broad. 6. One who is broad is not profound. 7. A Sage does not hoard. 8. Yet one who helps others ended up with more sufficed. 9. Yet one who gives to others ended up with more enriched. 10. The principle of nature benefits all with no harm. 11. The morality of human is to give but not to seize. Chapter 81 1. 信 言 不 美, 2. 美 言 不 信。 3. 善 者 不 辯, 4. 辯 者 不 善。 5. 知 者 不 博, 6. 博 者 不 知。 7. 聖 人 不 積: 8. 既 以 為 人 己 愈 有, 9. 既 以 與 人 己 愈 多。 10.天 之 道 利 而 不 害, 11.人 之 道 為 而 不 爭 。

fiveelementtao... Thanks for your time and effort. I am sorry. I have no traceability to correlate to the information that was presented in front of me. However, I have no intention to fight anything as you had thought that I was doing. I was just tried to present my side of the story. In the middle of the discussion, I'd realized that the discrepancy was so vast between our thoughts. Then, I wanted to put a pause to continue with my share and decided to hear more from you. Finally, at this point, I think our discussion have driven into a cul-de-sac. I wish to discuss further but there was no lead way. Therefore, I wish not to proceed any further and rest my case....

fiveelementtao.... Before we go any further, in your own words, may I hear from you that how the Taoist religion was found to begin with. What did they teach you before while you were in China...??? Thanks.... PS... Can you tell me why the Taoist religion was formed...???

I'm neutral about them but like to study them.........hehehehe.

Beliefs has no truth. BTW I am an atheist. I think things are getting to be too personal now. I will stop.

I am only pointing out the difference between the two religions, no one has claimed any superiority over one another. Please read carefully, my friend....

In regarding to the rituals between the Buddhist and Taoist religion. There is a difference in purpose between the two religions. The ancestor worshiping was not really considered to be part of the actual practice for both religions. Those rituals are a service provided for the common people only for economical reasons. Here are the difference in funeral services: 1. The Buddhist do it for removing the sins of the deceased to have a clean start for the next life. 2. The Taoist do it for the deceased to have peace and to easy the mind of the offspring. 3. The offspring, sometimes, brings gifts to the deceased but they need to have the Taoist to perform a ritual for that.

The term "Karma" was originated for India. However, the Chinese Buddhist interpreted as a recycle of life(輪迴, lun2 hui2). Let's not judge who is right or wrong but just exchange ideas in our cultural difference. The reason I said Karma is a Buddhist term was because it has to do with the human conduct during one's life time. The philosophy of a Chinese Buddhist is heavily emphasized that a person must be good as a whole at all times. For being a good person means that not to kill anything that is alive and be kind to others. Thus that's why the Buddha is a vegetarian. The Buddhist believes that if one kills a pig, then he may became a pig after reincarnation. Another example, if one treat others bad, he will be treated the same way or worse in his next life. To a Chinese Taoist, everything was in accordance with "Wu Wei", just being natural. He believes in longevity and immortal. An immortal has no after life. Hence, a Taoist does not have to concern with the Karma as a Buddhist does. PS... This is only referenced to my understanding of the original beliefs of both the Chinese Taoist religion and Buddhism. It may be contradicted to the western Taoist beliefs.

First of all, let me point out the difference in the two languages. One says one thing and the other says something else. That was how all the confusion came about. The English speaking person only understand the English part but there was not an easier way that they can comprehend and absorb the source of the origin. Here are two Wikipedia sites, one in English and the other in Chinese. I can assure you that they are not saying the same thing. Thus that is where the something gets lost in the Translation. Taoism in English: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism Taoist religion(道教) in Chinese: http://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-tw/%E9%81%93%E6%95%99 If I translate the original source, then, it would be completely different than what you had already known. Should we try one thought at time to make it easier to explain and give me a chance to translate my source. In any of the Chinese sources, there was not a word mentioned about karma. FYI The part of ancestor worshiping was done by the common people, who believe in Taoism but not the actual Taoists, in local temples. While the actual Taoists themselves have their own shrine, called 道觀, to cultivate their Taoist religious beliefs. This was depicted in the Chinese reference above. I want to point out the fact that ancestor worshiping was a traditional Chinese custom but not a Taoist ritual.

LaoTze's famous paradox. "We are here but not here." Sometimes we are "wu" and "you". When we are online, then we are here. When we're not online, then we are not here. hm...It's so obvious, why am I here saying this...???

I believe that you had been confused with the Buddhist philosophy and mixed in with Taoist. The Taoist belief was emphasized to be an immortal before anything else. The part of ritual was mainly performed by Buddhists to remove the sins of the deceased, so the deceased will have a clean life to start with after reincarnation. That was all done with a recognizable fee. Some place along the line, some greedy Taoist priests designed to follow this footstep. BTW A Taoist believes to be an immortal was, mainly, not to be concerned with the present life and after death. If one study about the Taoist religion, then the key word "immortal" cannot be ignored. Otherwise, one was studying something else other than the Taoist religion. @ Marblehead...

Eureka Utopia.....!!!

Taomeow... They didn't let you get away, did they...???...

That was my exact answer per your request. My concern was to give you the answer as impartial and accurate as I could. The tradition of Taoism do not believed in such thing as karma. Edited to add: Assuming that we are talking a Taoist in the traditional Taoist religion without any external influence, his main concern was to have a good health for longevity and to be an immortal during his present life. He has not mentioned any thoughts about karma or reincarnation. @deci belle... I hope I have cleared myself on this.

To the best of my knowledge: 1. If one study about Taoism, then one must isolate oneself from Buddhism and all others. Hence, karma is a Buddhist term, then the Taoist has nothing to do with it. 2. Taoist only concern with the present life but not like a Buddhist. A Buddhist concerns his life with the past, present and future. 3. Same as above.

This instrument is called 羅盤(lou2 pan2) with a compass in the center. It was used by the feng shui masters.

Chapter 80 1. A small country is less populated, 2. Even though there are various kinds of tools, but they haven't being utilized. 3. Let the people value their lives and not willing to migrate. 4. Even though there are many boats and carriages, but there was no need to be ridden them. 5. Even though they are armed with weapons, but there was no need to display them. 6. Let people return to the primitive period of to-tight-a-knot as a reminder. 7. Feed them with gourmet foods, 8. Provide them with beautiful attires, 9. Shelter them with good homes. 10. Entertain them with traditional leisure. 11. The people can mutually looking over their neighboring countries. 12. They can hear the noises of the chickens and dogs, 13. Even though the people are die of old age, 14. They had not mutually interacted with each other. ************* Chapter 80 1. 小國寡民。 2. 使有什伯之器而不用。 3. 使民重死而不遠徙。 4. 雖有舟輿無所乘之。 5. 雖有甲兵無所陳之。 6. 使民復結繩而用之。 7. 甘其食、 8. 美其服、 9. 安其居、 10.樂其俗。 11.鄰國相望， 12.雞犬之聲相聞。 13.民至老死 14.不相往來。

To find peace in your mind is to have serenity in the heart. The key to serenity was through meditation.

You cant.

lienshan... LaoTze left a message to be interpreted and evaluated by those who are alive. I got a feeling that you are telling me that you are not alive....