ChiDragon

A Chinese Taoist does zazen with breathing exercise to absorb Chi from nature to enhance his vitality for longevity. Meditation is the wrong word for zazen. However, it was the closest word in English for zazen. During zazen, a Taoist seems like he was in deep thought but it was not. Actually, he was in deep breathing and manipulating Chi inside his body. All these talk about Micro Orbit, Macro Orbit, meridians and Chi sunk to the dan tien are all imaginary terms used by the Chinese Taoists in describing the process of Chi Kung. That was what they think it was taken place inside the body. The term "meditation" does not relate to breathing in western thinking; but the term "zazen" does to a Chinese Taoist anyway. I think this is how all the confusions got started.

Marblehead... What do you think...???

Loa Tzu... What are you saying....??? Where did you get that idea.....???

Lao Tzu... Zen is 禪, a Chinese Buddhist term. Western term Meditation is 打坐(zazen) as a Chinese Taoist term. In the western world, people are mixing both terms together as they were mixing both Taoism and Buddhism in their thoughts. PS... No offense to all the Westerners, this is only my gut feeling and from what I had gathered here...

1. Based on you input, you have the basic knowledge and doing the fundamental breathing of Chi Kung. That's what you needed to know and filter out other stuff. So, don't let them confuse you. 2. What shows in bold is exactly how you should felt during normal practice. It is because you are really concentrating on your breathing. Please remember, it is the action that gives you the results and feelings can be deceiving. At the beginning of Chi Kung practice, there are many different sensations that you might have to go through. The Chinese called that the "Chi sensation". The "Chi sensation" came about is because, your body was going through a transient of changes. Chi Kung will scan your body internally to find any existing illnesses. It will go through a healing process if an illness was found. During the healing process you will feel some kind of unpleasant sensations. After the sensations are gone, it means that the illness had been cured. Then, Chi Kung continues to enhance the function of the whole body. 3. In regarding to ending the practice, in general, one should slowly exhale the last breath completely. Then go back to your normal breathing pattern. After years of Chi Kung or Tai Ji practice, your normal breathing pattern should be having the breath going slowly deep down to the lower dan tien at all times. Another words, a good breathing habit for Chi Kung practitioners should be about four breathing cycles per minute. My advice to you is not to learn too many methods or read too many books if you cannot filter out the unwanted information. In the mean time, just stay with Tai Ji and Chi Kung practice. You will learn from the experience in your practice as time goes by. It is a good thing to absorb new knowledge but at the same time filter out the unwanted. Try not to believe everything what the books said. Indeed, I think you are doing the right thing by asking legitimate questions when in doubt. Remember, use your own judgment and don't believe everything what people said. Including me if anything I said doesn't make any sense to you. Good luck in your practice. BTW I am also a Tai Chi and Chi Kung practitioner too....

Really, only westerner who view it such....??? What do you know about how the Chinese think...??? I'll reserve my comments about the Tao Te Ching is being a treatise of shamanism. However, where have you learned all about the Tao Te Ching....??? It seems to me you had learned quite differently from the rest.....

For some reason, I thought you might say that...........

Yes, as long as the hammer was not used to force thing to fit......

There are too many information out there. How much can one follow...??? Just use your own judgement. The diagram you see anything that is below the navel was considered the lower dan tian. However, someone will break it down and give it more names, but don't let that discourage you. The key to Chi Kung is to breathe like the way you had described. One can only control the breathing external. What will be taken place inside the body is really beyond your own control. If anyone tells you how you should feel, it was only imaginary. From breathing experience and biological knowledge, as long I breathe slowly and deep down to the abdomen, I'll considered that I have completed my breathing cycle. How do I know that...??? It was because my abdomen had fully expanded, then I know that my lungs are working to their fullest capability and capture the maximum amount of Chi. The term "Dan tien" was only a term used to describe a position in the body. The reason practitioners says "sunk the Chi to the lower dan tien" was because it was only an expression. Indeed, the breath did not really goes into the abdomen. There is no need to concern about the line that you had mentioned. You did fine up to this point.

I see you have a good memory....

It is not a matter of liking but understanding. Somebody need to put the hammer away......

English translation: There was someone who was crippled with a hunch back and cleft palate was sent to canvass King Ling of the State of Wei. King Ling likes him very much. Let's look at those who are normal, their necks are really small and narrow. There was another one with a tumor on his neck which make his neck look as big as an urn. He was sent to canvass King Huan of the State of Chi. King Huan likes him very much. Again, let's look at those who are normal, their necks are really small and narrow. Hence, those who has high virtues but with handicaps were forgotten by others. However, people do not forget what they suppose to forget; but always have forgotten what they not suppose to forget. Hence, that's what really was called oblivion.

It seems confusing to sign up.....

wait.........I need to figure out how to log in.

Yes, me too...

Both.......

Click the site in blue.

Lao Tzu... Yes, I am Chinese.

I believe he was more concerned with this character as he cited below: http://www.zdic.net/...dic88Zdic87.htm (according to wenlin) it breaks down to bu4 不 + ri4 日 + yue4 月-- i am looking for more informations about this rare character - quotes... who can help?

imb..... That sounds about right...!!! Why do you think it was incorrect...??? Let's take one thing at a time. When the breath was below your navel, did you breathe slowly and expand your abdomen outward....??? I need your answer before we can go any further...!!!

Lao Tzu.... May I hear your side of the story on Chapter Six.....??? Would you please translate it in your own words again....??? xie xie(thanks)...!!!

One must understand that the existence of the two terms 道家(Taojia, Tao philosopher) and 道教(Taojiao, Tao religion) and go deep into the Chinese language and cultural background in order to explain what Taoism is. The Western term of Taoism does not distinguish explicitly what Taoism is. Every time when Taoism was mentioned, one must go into deep details to point out the difference in philosophy and religion.

1. I believe the concepts about religion and philosophy you had mentioned do apply to Western and Eastern. e.g., The philosophy in the Tao Te Ching has lots of love and compassion in quite a few Chapters. 2. The difference in perspectives was only the cultural difference in thinking. Otherwise, the intention of the philosophies are the same for love and compassion. 3. Taoism contains two ideas, philosophy and religion, as a whole in Western thinking. In Eastern thinking, religion and philosophy are distinguished with two separated entities. With the two terms 道家(Taojia, Tao philosopher) and 道教(Taojiao, Tao religion), right away we'll know what the counterpart was talking about with less confusion.

Let's compare notes. I think your translation and interpretation are close. At least you are using the received version with the proper punctuations.... Here is my final translation after so many years working on it. Chapter 1 1. 道可道，非常道。 2. 名可名，非常名。 3. 無,名天地之始。 4. 有,名萬物之母。 5. 故常無,欲以觀其妙。 6. 常有,欲以觀其徼。 7. 此兩者同出而異名， 8. 同謂之玄。玄之又玄， 9. 眾妙之門。 1. Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao. 2. A name that can be named is not an eternal name. 3. Invisible was the name given to Tao at the origin of heaven and earth. 4. Visible was the name given to Tao as the mother of all things. 5. Hence, when Tao is always invisible, one would grok its quale. 6. When Tao is always visible, one would observe its boundary. 7. These two come from one origin but differ in name, 8. Both are regarded as fathomless; the most mysterious of the mysterious; 9. The gate of all changes.

Yes, a religion was only an offshoot of the philosophy but it was never the original philosophy itself. I'm sure you know the difference between 道家 and 道教. May I ask how would you translate or interpret Chapter One of the Tao Te Ching in your own words as a native without any foreign influence....???