ChiDragon

Just be aware who's around you, friends or foes, they can stab a knife into your back. You are always aware of your enemies but not your friends. However, a friend can turn into an enemy due to some personal gains or conflicts.

僊(仙)灵哉不威 - 自畏 The immortal spirits are not fearsome, but everyone should still respect them. 师老矣有德 - 须尊 The elder teachers are virtuous and we shall respect them. 燕燕如山大似海 The flock of swallows is like a mountain and big as the sea. 青松古竹風不動 The standing green pines and antique bamboos and the wind is not moving.

Ah... This sounds familiar. I did read something about Chi Kung, e.g. breathing slow and deep down to the Dan Tian(NAB). Finally, somebody has awaken and relate something modern to the ancient practicing principle of Chi Kung or something to that effect.

Yes, he sure does that all the time. I did try to tell him at another Tao site, but here he is again. You are welcome! lienshan...

i thought you are able to read metaphors by now...

Here is the difference between a Buddhist and a Taoist. A Buddhist wants to end all his miseries before death. A Taoist will end all his miseries after death(ZZ but not LaoTze). To LaoTze, death was only a natural thing.

-K- You inspired me with your open-mindedness, objectiveness, and the willingness to accept new ideas where they seem fit. I would like to express my unbiased approach to obtain my knowledge. I do have a habit of going to the origin of the source to get the immanent and permanent information to get to the heart of it. Things related to Chi Kung and Martial Arts, I will go to the native source. However, anything related to modern science, I will go to the western source. It is because my heart tells me that the information from the original source couldn't be less accurate than the source from the aftermath. The reason I like to go the origin of the source, so, I do not have to deal with any mistranslations. Also, the words are straight from the horse's mouth. If people start telling me that I full of you know what, then I really have to start thinking about why the things they are saying were not uniform. Thus there must be an answer which has to come from somewhere to justify the uniqueness of each system. Sometimes, I had encounter the native sources do have errors due to the misunderstanding of the author and misinterpreting the original concepts. In this case, I have to use my own intuition and judgment to filter out the unwanted ideas by trial and error until I get it right. Just to be fair, recently I had been reading some native source using modern science in explaining Chi Kung. Fortunately, I had read the western science book as my original source ahead of time to establish my basic foundation to detect the errors in my secondhand native source. To me, regardless of a translation into what language, there are always some thoughts are difficult to be translated accurately. Hence, if one goes to the original source will have less errors. I was told many time to learn the things from a master. FYI I had talk to some masters about Chi Kung, somehow, the words came out from the mouths are all different and the stuffs I had read are different too. Well, how can I determine who is more correct than the others. Indeed, the more I read, then I will see some sort of a pattern which reveal the similarities in their words. Thus that's a kind of formulating an uniform conceptual agreement. Perhaps, this may not be an acceptable approach by some of you; but to me it gives me some kind of confidence of understanding the basic concept.

Chapter 66 - The King of the Valleys 1. The reasons for the River and Ocean that can become the king of the valleys, 　 2. Because they are good in placing themselves in a low position, 3. Therefore, they can be the king of the valleys. 4. If the sage would like to be on the top of the people, 5. He must be humble with them. 6. He must let the people come before himself, 7. He must stay behind them. 8. A sage was placed on the top of the people and not pressuring them. 9. He was placed in front of the people with no harm comes to them. 10. Therefore, the people are happy to have him and they won't be tired of him, 11. Because he does not contend, 12. Therefore, no one will be able to compete with him. 第六十六章 1. 江海之所以為百谷王者, 2. 以其善下之， 3. 故能為百谷王。 4. 是以聖人欲上民, 5. 必以言下之， 6. 欲先民， 7. 必以身後之。 8. 是以聖人處上而民不重， 9. 處前而民不害。 10.是以天下樂推而不厭。 11.以其不爭， 12.故天下不能與之爭。

This is only my understanding to myself and speaking aloud in my thinking. I have have been noticed all forms of Chi Kung are movements and breathing. How one wants to describe it was strictly up to the individual. What's taken place inside the body will not change. There are thousands of movements in different styles of Chi Kung, who are we to say which is correct or incorrect. If you do them and felt the efficacy, then you are correct for carrying out your intention rather than the active movements. The narration was only the author of the movements wants to believe what they might do to the health of the body. However, what has been taken place inside the body is really the natural biological events regardless what one might say otherwise externally.

2. Yes, K, you are right. When I am in doubt, I always go to other sources for answers. Besides rely on or paying too much attention to the Consciousness aspect of it, I would like to compare notes with modern science and see what was missing from the past without any modern technology for verification. 1. An "inflammatory" nervous/neural response. One could ask 'response to what?' "Damage" is correct. Inflammatory was due to the damaged body tissues cause the cell fluids, matrix, to leak outside the cell walls. This fluids are flowing in between the walls of the cells causing swelling in the infected area. 3. What Chi Kung does was to increase the amount of oxygen in the body to speed up the metabolism rate in the production of ATP for the healing process. The more ATP was generated, the missing number red and white blood cells will be generated to speed up the healing process for the infected area. Hence, that was why you have heard some of the members here testified that they heal much faster from a small cut. 4. My only concern is the Chi flow inside me rather than flow from people to people. It was because it is beyond my comprehension. I would like to consider the kind of Chi that is flowing in my body is the oxygen molecule. My justification for that is I only know the kind of Chi I am breathing into my respiratory system is in a form of oxygen. Others may think of it as Chi or interpret as something else. Perhaps, I can think that I can breathing as much Chi into my body without the oxygen attached, I would be a dead duck in few minutes.

You are becoming the master in breathing. I am with you all the way.

What is the Buddhist tradition....???

Oh...Yes...!!! One can claim anything one likes or wants without any justification.

Yes, some Chi Kung masters claimed after a prolong practice of Chi Kung, the practitioner doesn't even need to eat nor to breathe. Who should we believe...??? BTW Why Taoists always choose to meditate in places like mountains, around the greenery and close to Nature...??? Don't you think it has something to do with fresh air....??? They claim that they don't much oxygen but they are doing deep breathing without realizing the significance of oxygen. We are breathing the Chi and oxygen from the air into the body, and putting so much emphasis on the Chi and ignoring the oxygen completely. Do you think that was wise...???

I would ignore the last paragraph concerning about the Dan Tian because it defeated the whole purpose of meditation.

Yes, me too.

"A title with a body" is synonymous with "lienshan" "the son of Heaven" is the ruler.

Alas...!!! All these places are abundant of oxygen....

Green Tiger... Welcome back...!!! Yes, most people were discouraged in Tai Ji because of the slow movements seem useless. Wait until you do the continuous practice for few years, the Jin in the muscles will built up with good muscle tone. Then, when you are able to Fa Jin, you'll know that the power was hidden like steel in cotton. Indeed, the movements flowing like river was from days of practice but not initially from day one.

Yes, that is correct. However, if we're trying not to assume that the other doesn't know what he was talking about. It would be wise and try to share, with a common language, on common ground. "NBM is foundation to be able to charge the abdomen, which you can not charge when you have chest breathing, well you can try charge the chest... " Please don't forget that one must pass the chest breathing, by continuous practice, before reach the NBM, assuming NBM is Normal Abdominal Breathing. How do you justify this statement...??? "It is also possible to have NBM all the life, but the Qi not "touch the lower Dantien" (Thx KaliYuga)."

Sorry.... FYI That was the stupid way I write. No hostility was intended on my part. I apologize. I am just excitedly asking you a question respectfully. I am not trying to demand you to prove yourself. I was simply asking have you ever considered looking into other areas to substantiate the Claims of the Chinese as part of your study or personal interest. Yes, that was exactly what I meant but I didn't say it as crystal clear as you did. Edited to add:

Have you ever tried to relate the Classical Chinese Medicine to Modern Western Science. I mean something like correlate the Chinese meridians to physiology...??? Are you restricting yourself within the Classical Chinese Medicine without looking into modern science to verify some of the claims by the Chinese...???

You took everything out of context. Are you still into the old thread...??? Please let it go.

Sun Tze teaches us how to win a war. Aim for the least casualty, by not loosing a war was to be considered winning. Chuang Tze was always in peace, he may not has to plan for it. He doesn't get involve in thinking about war like LoaTze does. Chapters 30 and 31 of the Tao Te Ching are related to Sun Tze's art of war.