ChiDragon

Hey, it was not the English word alone. We Chinese have the same problem with 德(Te) also. The first thing that they will think of was Confucius too.

OK. I'll take your word for it that qi simply cannot just relate directly to air or oxygen even though I believe it was working for me all this time. I will continue to do my deep breathing and advance to a higher level of Chi Kung while others are still wondering where Chi is coming from. Anyway, it was a real pleasure talking to you and shared our differences of understanding about Chi.

I know you, Scotty.

zerostao... 1. We were talking about emitting Chi 5 to 10 feet away which an ordinary person cannot do. 2. You can do a google search on ATP.

Do we really need this shitty thread. Don't you think we are just wasting cyberspace....????

Yes, I had limited myself to the definition of Chi within Chi Kung. If we are talking about ATP, yes, the food and breathing comes into the picture. This would be food and breathing is analogous to glucose and oxygen. Isn't the air and food are a great deal comes from the universe which turns into energy with the human body.

oat1239... As I had mentioned this here once before in the forum, I am not at the level of understanding how Chi was emitted from on human body. This was never my argument. My argument was an scientific and comprehensible explanation to show how was the energy generated within the human body. If I am going to explain the scenario in you case, based with my present knowledge, the Chi emitted from the human body has to be related to the ATP because that was the only known source of energy within the human body. My educational guess would be that the Chi Kung master has the ability to activate all the mitochondria in the body to generated a maximum of ATP possible to release all at once.

So, I had glance at it once before. At least I'm agreed about the part that breathing plays a important role in Chi Kung. I am not quite about using plant as an analogy with human. Fortunately, the article says: I'm glad that the article used the word "imagine". I almost thought it was for real. As a matter of fact, some Chinese master did claim that they can breathe through their skin. I heard this a few times that a Chi Kung mater can suck smoke through his mouth and have the smoke come out from the pores of the skin and vice versa. The notion about the walking art. When I walk, I would take steps in coordination with every single smooth breath. I will not hold my breath for anything while I am in motion based on the idea of concentration in the past. Since my reaction had become spontaneous in sync with my mind, as soon I loose concentration while holding something in one hand, I dropped the thing in my hand while responding to action in the mind . Sometimes, luckily I catch it before it drops to the floor. oops.... It just happened a few minutes ago, my bird flew at me, within 5 to 6 inches, and try to bite my finger. Without thinking my reflex was so quick before I realize that I might hurt my bird, it was on knocked on the floor already. Good thing it was a light touch on my part.

Maybe Steve has healing in mind....

Yes, I only have knowledge in Yang Long Form and the basic principles in breathing. If I have concentrate on one style, long enough, I ought to learn and know the concepts inside out as opposed to be confused by multi-styles. Thus the less was to be known; the less was to be confused. One have learned a lot if one had the basic fundamental pinned down with a full understanding. Hence, there was no need to depend on others and to be misled by them.

Thank you. Communication is very important to use common sense. I have established a definition for Chi in the last few years. I had been trying to let people know if we are talking about the energy flowing in the body. We cannot go by any myth from the past fanatically. We must go with something that is explainable and comprehensible. If we look closely to modern science e.g. physiology. It talks about how the human body energy, the biological energy(ATP), was required oxygen and glucose to be generated. If we stick to the definition of Chi Kung which involves with breathing and we know it builds up body energy. It says loud and clear that breathing has something to do with oxygen and the energy Chi is implicating ATP. If we open our minds and think about it, we should related that the breathing and Chi are analogous to oxygen and ATP. Period.

OK. This is my understanding for a religious Taoist but not Taoism in general. The main purpose to be a religious Taoist was to preserve life for longevity. Taoist Meditation is part of the life preserving process to a Taoist. What I am saying is why should the mind be disturbed while trying to obtain serenity. The purpose for meditation was to place oneself in a state of quiescent so the body and mind are at rest in complete quietness. Thus, it was free from any interference and interruption based on the concept of Wu Wei.

Is there a need to respond to lienshan......??? :D :D

You did not read me correctly....

Hi, Mendelssohn.... Welcome to TTB. Good thing you had sensed that there are two sides to Taoism. One side is the philosophy and the other is religion. What happened was some people study the philosophy in the Tao Te Ching, originally, laid out by LaoTze. However, a group of people came along and interpreted certain part of the Tao Te Ching in favor for their religion purpose as canon. If you pay closed attention to Heshang Gong's copy of the Tao Te Ching, you will see lots of places were changed to mention something for the good health of a human body. Legendarily, he was known to be a very active in the Taoist religion.

When we interpret the Tao Te Ching, we exclude the thoughts of Confucians. Te in the Tao Te Ching is the virtue of being Wu Wei. Whoever follows the principle of Wu Wei or being natural was considered to have the virtue of Tao.

There is a distinction in meditation between a Buddhist and a Taoist. A Buddhist meditation was for a thought of wisdom which need to be resulted. When he reached the full understand of that thought, he was considered to be enlightened. A Taoist meditation was to have no thoughts and bring the mind into a Wu state. A Wu state is to think of nothing but put oneself into a quiescent state.

Chapter 61 1. Big country should flow downstream like a river. 2. To be at a peaceful site like the softness of femininity, 3. It would be a perfect place of the world for diplomacy. 4. Femininity always use softness to dominate the masculinity. 5. With humbleness to lower oneself. 6. Therefore, a big country serves a small country with humbleness, 7. Hence, wins the trust of the small country . 8. Small country repay a big country with unpretentious, 9. Then, gains the trust of the big country. 10.So, either one lower oneself to gain the trust of the other, 11.Or one yields to give the trust to the other. 12.A big country give aids to a small country, 13.A small country has tolerance for a big country. 14.Thus both countries have their wishes fulfilled, 15.Though the dominant, yet, should be more humble. 61 1. 大國者下流， 2. 天下之牝。 3. 天下之交也。 4. 牝常以靜勝牡。 5. 以靜為下。 6. 故大國以下小國， 7. 則取小國。 8. 小國以下大國， 9. 則取大國。 10.故或下以取， 11.或下而取。 12.大國不過欲兼畜人。 13.小國不過欲入事人。 14.夫兩者各得所欲， 15.大者宜為下。

Peace, I'll not argue about that..... Edited to add: I might considered it would be alertness, awareness or vigilance.

故 - Gu - Therefore 德 - De - Efficacy ; virtue 交 - Jiao - mutual intercourse or exchange; handed over 歸 - Gui - return/ give back / gather together / return (something to its owner) 焉 - Yan - ! "Therefore, the virtue was handed over and returned to....... "

NO, there was no such thing as "Walking meditation". I don't know how people came up with this terminology...??? Wild, wild West......

Very good thought from another point of view. Act like a Taoist was simple means to behave like ladies and gentlemen but not mandatory. However, we are only given them the option to be. They might learn or pick up something from here. What they want to do for themselves is something for them to think about. We don't expect them to be a Taoist or a saint. Since they have exposed themselves to a Taoist environment, we do expect a little change in their behavior. Of course, this was only my wishful thinking and hope that the integrity of the TTB has a little tiny effect on people.....

This is a Taoist forum, most people come here to learn Taoism as indicated in the Lobby by many new members. Learning the principles of the Tao Te Ching, as long we are here, is part of the cultivation as Taoist behavior. Self discipline is, also, a part of the cultivation here. The newcomers without any Taoist behavior knowledge are acceptable and tolerable at the beginning. However, at the later stage, their behavior still have not change any are acceptable but not tolerable. Unfortunately, they're being accepted to stay but not tolerable due to the lack of self discipline and the proper guidance by other members. We are here to learn and to share from each other rather than attacking what one doesn't know or not possessing the same knowledge as others. IMO If something was new to me, it doesn't mean it was incorrect, it was just something I haven't heard of, that's all. However, I would like to find out why did the other person says that with some curiosity instead shutting the door on myself. As far as the concern of was a moderator necessary, I would say it is OK to have it but there is no need to enforce it for its intended purpose. Since this is a Taoist environment, we should have an expectation for someone to behave like a Taoist. I don't know how far this will be carried out to. At least, I think, it should carry us to some extent. Hopefully, it will carry us to the full extent for all of us in the near future.

oops.... I missed your post. Zhengyi 正一道 is the majority sect of Taoist religion. I wouldn't belittle them as the small part of Taoism.

Yes, I didn't call myself the forlorn Taoist for nothing......