ChiDragon

1. OK...!!! I buy that, but the speed is really insignificant here. It is a matter does the cell respiration takes place or not. 2. That Lactate process takes place, only and only if, when there is a lack of oxygen. Indeed, the glucose will turn into lactate and causing the muscle to fatigue and pain due to hypoxia. However, if there were sufficient of oxygen, the glucose will not turn into lactate but at the final stage of cell respiration will generate a maximum of 38 molecules of ATP. Only 36 ATP are available for the usage of the body. It was because the body cell had used up 2 ATP for the cell respiration process itself. Glucose + O2 => Lactate 3. Exactly, breathing slowly will provide plenty of oxygen for the body cells to produce the ATP. BTW according to the natural law, energy cannot be destroyed, stored or preserved. Energy will be dissolved if it was not used but it can be regenerated again. Glucose + O2 => H2O + CO2 + heat + energy unit(ATP)

HNJT... I am glad that we are in resonance and our terms had come to an agreement. BTW I couldn't be happier to see how you finalized your words in the understanding about Chi, Jing, and Shen. It indicates to me, conceptually, that you do have a crystal clear comprehension of these three elements. Based on our understanding, I can only explain the great ancient concept better with your definitions and modern science. 1. Jing is the body, essentially. The physical manifestation of energy; neurological, synaptic, respiratory. As you said Jing is the body, essentially. If we break it down microscopically, Jing is the basic unit of the body which a body cell. Body cells generate the energy for the body to function holistically, internally as well as externally. Body cells can regenerate themselves by mitosis, split cells. Based on the physiological knowledge, the human body does external breathing and the body cell does internal breathing. The body cell only breathes oxygen which is called cell respiration. The cell respiration is the refined process of the metabolism of the human body. External breathing is to provide the oxygen for the body cells throughout the body. Cell respiration is to generate the biochemical energy, ATP, in order for the internal organs to function. I can finalize it by saying that the Taoist referred as Chi is flowing in the meridians. BTW it did not say a whole lot. For a better comprehensive understand, I would like to correlate the meridian in modern terms. I would say that the meridians are comprised of the arteries, veins, and nerves in the body to function as a whole. 2 and 3, 2. How does the cycle of Jing, Chi, & Shen work? The body cells require nourishment like glucose and oxygen to generate ATP. Without one or the other, the body cell will cease all its function. Thus, it is essential to provide ample of oxygen to the body cells. As I indicated before, Chi Kung is about the practice of enhancing the respiratory system to sustain the health of the body. It was valid to say the purpose of Chi Kung was to provide a maximum of oxygen which the body allows to have. In summary, Jing is the essential unit of a human body. As long one can provide what it needs, then it will perform its function in according to how much was provided. Therefore, if a maximum provision of nourishment was provided, then the efficiency of its function will be at its peak. Another word, the Qi will be at its utmost to fine tune the body to perform its function with the most efficiency. Finally, the Shen will display the body conditions by manifesting the potency of the Jing and the ability to produce the amount of the Qi energy it had generated. However, if the Jing were no longer transmute into Qi, then the Shen will show the body in a fatigue status. For longevity, A Taoist wants to have the Shen to display the body is at its tip-top shape.

I wish these statements didn't make by you. The part on the ATP short lived is valid but takes a very long time for regeneration is not. Furthermore, I was hoping someone else was going to make this correction instead of me. FYI... ATP are generated as fast as one can consume. e.g. Each time when the muscle contracts, it requires an action potential signal to activate the muscle nerves for contraction. This action potential is a biochemical energy, ATP. It is true that the ATP only last a few seconds. However, as soon the muscle contracts, the ATP will be generated almost instantly for its purpose. "also very long time for regeneration." If I evaluate the cardiac muscle based on this invalid statement, then the heart will not pump fast enough to deliver the oxygenated blood to the body cells throughout the body. Please keep in mind, ATP are required for cardiac muscle contraction, otherwise, it will cause a cardiac arrest if ATP were not present. If the heart do not pump fast enough due to the lack of ATP, as a result, hypoxia will occur in the body. Hypoxia is the worse condition for the body cells which will cause mutation to transform into cancerous cells or death.

Ref from dawei: It didn't say exactly, but doesn't it sound familiar...??? Glucose + O2 = H2O + CO2 + heat + energy(ATP) Isn't glucose was from the food we eat and oxygen from the air we breathe....????

Ahh.... I thought that might catch someone's attention. BTW Whatever it says in Chinese or English about Jing, Qi and Shen still make no sense to me. I try to understand the internal alchemy by relating it to modern science. Here is the way I would like to understand it: The human body structure was formed by a basic unit. The Taoists called this unit Jing which the body cell in western science. Of course, the Taoist don't want to call it the body cell. Jing is something that we must keep it going to sustain the life of the body. In order to do so, one has to breath something in the air to keep the Jing alive and transform it into Qi. By the Taoist definition, Qi was formed by the food we eat and the air we breathe. That tells me, the glucose was from the food that we eat and the oxygen from the air that we breathe. The resultant product is the ATP energy which is analogous to the Taoist Qi. The Qi energy activates the human body to move. The motion of the body manifest the soul of the body. The soul reveals the spiritual livelihood of the body. The Taoist called the human soul as Shen. The Shen was only a manifestation of the motion of the body. After each motion, then the Shen was disappeared into thin air which is the Void as the Taoist called. And this cycle repeats itself by breathing the air and combined with the glucose to form Qi again. This the simplest way of my understanding that I can explain it in plain language. Again, the Chinese and English sayings about JIng, Qi and Shen are hard for me to grasp.

I think we have gone over this once before. We should not mix the Confucius' virtue with the Virtue of Tao to avoid confusion. 1. Virtue of Tao: Those who follow the natural course of Nature was considered to have the virtue of Tao 2. Virtue of human: Those who follow the moral conducts of human was considered to have the virtue of morality. PS... I think Marblehead did agree with me that when we interpret the Tao Te Ching, we must exclude Confucian and all other philosophies. The Tao Te Ching is a piece of stand alone document. All its definitions are well defined in the TTC.

No, I'm in the USA.

Go check out the Fu Jou under steam's post http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/20570-cultivating-the-tao-in-china/

Wait til all the people find out what is Buddhism before they can practice it.

Steve.... This is nothing new. All the sifus will assume that their styles are the best and superior just like what we are doing here.... :lol:

You all are reading the same thing and believed. I have to give you all the credit how you all understand it from your source. I must say it was too broad from your point of view. Like I said before, you all are lumping every together, in the contrary, it seems I have a narrow mind. However, I am only repeating what my source says. At least, I can narrow it down with simple definitions and I can explain it with consistency and less confusion. Since our concepts are so different, shall we say I practice the Chinese Style and you all practice your own style. In the past, I had described the efficacy from my practice based on my own beliefs. So far, I have been hearing your theories and concepts, but I don't think I have heard how your practice effected your physical body or health. Would you please shed some light on that....???

dawei... I see you have your own reliable sources. I have nothing to say nor can link me into your references. I have to stop right here due to there was no correlation in our notes. Peace.

Good point Jing->Qi->Shen->Void is an internal alchemy process inside the body. Jing has to be nourished by the Chi(air) from breathing to react with the Jing to produce into Qi(energy). The Qi was manifested by Shen which is the soul of the body. The Shen reflects the spirit of the body. e.g. The feelings, the complexion, the lights shown in the eyes and the mood. The MCO recycles the internal alchemy process in each MCO orbit by sunken the breath deep to the lower Dan Tian. Thus if the MCO stops, then the internal alchemy process ceased also.

Yes, I do get the impression that you understand it all. Jing --> Qi --> Shen --> Wu 精 --> 氣 --> 神 --> 無(none) BTW The actual characters: 精 --> 氣 --> 神 --> 虛(hollowness void) I see there was a misunderstanding here already. But, hey, using PinYin or phonetics will mislead the western public. Now, I really understand where the miscommunication, misunderstanding and misleading came from.

You really did not say anything new or meaningful but personal feelings.

I'm addressing the issue not the person. Can you give me some justifications how are Dao and Wuji involve with the rest...??? It just make no sense. Can you define WuJi..???

I don't see how Dao and Wuji get involve with Jing, Qi and Shen. Somebody was really confused about these two terms. IMO This a very bad secondhand information and misleading.

Here is how it was defined: Jing changes into Chi; Chi changes into Shen; Shen changes into Void. It was considered to be the internal alchemy. I did not find anything which says the process was vice versa. MCO only takes place when the breath sunk deep to the lower Dan Tian. Every time when this happens was considered to be one orbit cycle. Someone says it goes only one way; but then someone else says it can go both ways. IMO It really doesn't matter because the MCO was only imaginary. What was significant is actually the breathing which serves the purpose.

I knew it was coming.......hehehe They have good English background perhaps. Edited to add: As far as proper translation as concern: 天下(tian xia): all the people under heaven; the people of China.

Yes, selfishness is always within our superegos. Hehehe...

It was interesting how the natives who can read the classic text with a no number translation. However, the non native speakers are assigning a number to line 3 in their thinking. 3. 天下莫能知, Native Translations... CD: 3. But, yet, the people don't understand them, John Wu: 3. The people have no knowledge of this. Non Native translations: English/Feng: 3. Yet no man under heaven knows them or practices them. Henricks: 3. Yet no one in the world can understand them, Marblehead: 3. Yet few in the world can understand them

Chapter 70 2. My words are very easy to be understood; 2. And very easy to be executed. 3. But, yet, the people don't understand them, 4. Nor able to execute them. 5. Words has an origin. 6. Matter has its root. 7. Because others don't understand these reasons, 8. Thus that's why they don't understand me. 9. Those who understand me are very seldom, 10. Therefore, it would be valuable if they can follow my principles. 11. However, only virtuous sages, 12. Wearing shoddy clothes are hidden with precious jade. Chapter 70 1. 吾言甚易知, 2. 甚易行。 3. 天下莫能知, 4. 莫能行。 5. 言有宗, 6. 事有君。 7. 夫唯無知, 8. 是以我不知。 9. 知我者希, 10.則我者貴。 11.是以聖人, 12.被褐懷玉。

FYI... 雲 besides "cloud" it could mean "it was said to be" in ancient text.

The guys are right. Tai ji is it but you must practice and practice to pass the beginner level until you are able to Fa Jin. At the Fa Jin level, you can hardly need to move or just a slight movement of one part of the body will send someone distance away.

Yes, we should use proper terminologies.