ChiDragon

Thank you...!!! I don't believe in ghosts, neither, nor did LaoTze. Anyway, he was only use "ghosts" as an illustration for those who believe in ghosts...

The "feeling of Qi" or 氣感, the "Chi sensation" as what the Chinese Chi Kung society called it. The Chinese CK masters described it as the body was going through the physical changes. It only occurs if there was a deficiency or small illness in the body. After the illnesses are cured by the continuous practice, the Chi sensation will be gone and was not repeatable. Thus that was why the symptoms won't happen again.

Open... we expand. The wisdom territory. It's all in the mind.

Yes, I had said that enough which it's enough and I'll not repeat myself anymore. Furthermore, I'll not argue the same old thing over and over again, here, to jeopardize the integrity of the members nor to contaminate this wonderful and purest thread. ..................

Chapter 60 Ruled by Tao 1. Ruling a big nation is like frying a small fish. 2. With the presence of Tao beneath heaven, 3. The ghosts cannot extent their power. 4. It's not only that the ghosts cannot extent their power, 5. But its power cannot harm anyone. 6. It was not even that their power cannot harm anyone, 7. A ruler also does no harm to anyone. 8. Since both do no mutual harm to each other, 9. Then, the virtue of peace was returned to the people. 1. 治大國,若烹小魚. 2. 以道莅天下, 3. 其鬼不神; 4. 非其鬼不神, 5. 其神不傷人; 6. 非其神不傷人, 7. 聖人亦不傷人. 8. 夫兩不相傷, 9. 故德交歸焉.

Breathe by sitting on a small end table, like I do, in front of the monitor....

Steve, I am glad that we are in resonance with the same wavelength. By the words came out from each individual, we will know how much each one knows and what level of Chi Kung that they are in. So far, I have not read any description about Chi Kung as precise and relevant as the way you have stated. I would like to borrow some of your words and use them to address some minor issues because I couldn't say it better and as effective as you do. 1. Yes, breathing is very important and is a must in all martial arts. Especially, the "abdominal breathing" method was emphasized in Chi Kung. All the Chi Kung masters will know that only breathing will cause a physical change in the body. However, they may not know about the biological changes because it was not part of the requirement to study physiology in the practice of Chi Kung. Therefore, the master can only express what they feel in their thoughts. I think that was the reason why there are so many discrepancies in the stories which had been told by them. It was very obvious, for those who practiced correctly in their breathing will have good results; and advance to the next higher level much quicker. For those who don't take breathing seriously are not advancing to the next level. Thus the biggest reason was that they have not done anything different than an ordinary person. 2. I couldn't say it any better than you have about the latter. The former was done so because it was only a test to indicate the progressing stage of the practitioner. 3. In my Tai Ji class, not to force breathing was exactly how I was taught. However, that was only at the beginning level. Most people didn't know regulating breathing was a higher level of practice. At the beginning level, the students didn't know how to breathe correctly. Indeed, as they went through the practice of the basic movements continuously, their breathing will be adjusted as you had said. Since they had prepared themselves to improve the respiratory system, then they can do regulating breathing. 4. Same as above. 5. Force breathing was not only for martial reasons but for health too. At the second level, force breathing is no longer a taboo, it was mandatory because it was the correct breathing method and has become the "natural breathing" habit. 6. There is no need to be sorry; and I am glad that you did.....

Steve, what you have said is all true which I had said the same thing elsewhere. It was just too many objections and confusions in the communication due to some misunderstanding.

It was confusing enough in talking about the "flow of Chi". Now, we are introducing the "flow of Jing" to cause more confusion....??? Somehow, the meaning of Chi Kung(not definition) to some understood as the cultivation of energy with or without breathing. To some understood that Chi Kung is the cultivation of energy involves with breathing. Some of the native sources said that Chi Kung has to be cultivated. During the first level of the cultivation period, the mentality, the physical body and breathing have to go through some adjustments. When the practitioners reached the second level, so the mentality, the physical body and breathing can be regulated. Chi Kung at the first level need to go through" 1. The adjustment of breathing, 2. The adjustment of the body activity 3. The adjustment of the mentality At the second level of Chi Kung: 1. The breathing can be regulated. 2. The body activity can be regulated. 3. The mentality can be regulated. Some people claimed that Chi Kung does not has to be involved with breathing; it may be just by using the mind will change the health of the body. However, in this scenario, I don't see anything insinuating that there was a piece of physical evidence which caused a change to the body. In the scenario that the Chi Kung practice involves with breathing; and the new breathing method will change the regular breathing habit to abdominal breathing. There are ample of evidence indicating that the abdominal breathing method has changed the health of a human body from worse to best. The mentality will be effected, automatically, with an improvement of the health condition of the body. Based on this scenario, I would like to validate the original native concept of Chi Kung, at the beginning level, which go through the adjustments of the breathing, the physical body and the mentality. At the first level of cultivation, the body was prepared for the next level of practice by going through a biological changes. These biological changes were made by some proper adjustments in breathing, transformation of the muscles, and as well as mentality. Then, the body will be ready to go into the energetic level of practice. Indeed, the second level is an intensive training in boosting the energy level of the body.

In general, the "natural breathing" pattern is inhale and exhale. The "natural breathing" I have mentioned before, that you are referring to, was the natural breathing habit of each individual. Does matter how one breathes...??? One can breathe upside down and the air is still going into the lungs. The oxygen still will be collected by the red blood cells. The body needs oxygen. What do you think is best way to provide a maximum amount of oxygen possible to the human body...??? Ref: Respiration

Let's stay with the main subject.

Peace.......

Yes, it does altering the conscious due to reduction in the availability of oxygen for the body cells. In addition, instead of just concentrate on the breathing, now, an extra factor was introduced to the breathing pattern. The pattern was not one smooth flow of breath but the pattern was forced to be changed during the middle of exhalation which causing the mind to be more unconscious than conscious on the breathing. Therefore, my main objection for the percentage exhalation method was causing the normal breathing pattern to be broken.

I see something got loose and lost here. There is a nuance between Chi Kung and Nei Kung but now-a-days people are using these two terms too loosely. The original purposes were: Chi Kung: The original intent was on the contraction on breathing. Nei Kung: The original intent was on the contraction on inner strength. Even though both of them accomplish the same result but the intent was different. It may not make any difference in one's thinking but it's good to know the distinction of intent.

Do we all agree that breathing has to be natural...??? If so, what is the natural way to breathe...??? To me, to breathe natural is to breathe in-out, in-out, in-out.....etc. If one breathes in, then 50% out; in, then 40% out; in...etc. It was not normal. My rationale for the objection of this kind of breathing is because of the unnatural pattern. We want to breathe as smooth as possible such as inhale then exhale, inhale then exhale. It requires no thinking. So the mind can only concentrate on just one simple rhythm. If one has to breathe in an irregular pattern, the mind will be distracted by keeping track of the amount of the air to be exhaled. The purpose to exhale was to get rid of the poison gas, carbon dioxide, from the body. We want to let it out ASAP, but why should we let only a certain percentage out and have the rest of the poison gas stays inside the body. Besides, when we do a full exhalation, there are still some residues of oxygen and carbon dioxide left inside the lungs anyway. The best breathing method is to breathe in as much air as possible that the lung allows. Then exhale the carbon dioxide as much as possible. BTW Healing takes place in the tissues by mitosis anyway. Mitosis use the oxygen that we breathed in but not by the breathing pattern. What is the purpose of breathing in an irregular pattern just for five minutes a day....??? I don't see any significant value or benefit in his method.

You had said it all. My question to you is how can the leg muscles feel rock solid without being contracted....??? PS... How long have you been practicing Chi Kung...???

I'm still waiting for you to answer this question. I used that for the title because that was the original source; and it was to prove my point that Chi Kung involves abdominal breathing. That was what Chi Kung is all about. Now-a-days, people are using this term very loosely. I just want to straight it out so it won't be so confusing. The things I said that I don't believe was the Chinese explanation about Chi Kung was not very scientific. Therefore, I want to find the missing link to explain why it works from the western science. PS.... May I have to pleasure to find out from you? Have you ever practiced Chi Kung...???

A practitioner of the highest level of qigong/neigong has a very high physical strength. He may look very relaxed and poised. However, one cannot tell how much force he was applying into he muscles. You see he moves are very smooth and poised; it was all done by muscle control. In order to keep in the poised position, he was use his inner Jin. I don't know how many time I have to say it, in order to Fa Jin the muscle has to contracted. Without deep breathing, one cannot contract the muscles to FA Jin. For him to stand on one leg without any muscle contraction is impossible. Have you ever touch his leg muscles while standing on one leg...??? If you did, it should fill like a rock. PS.... There is one thing that bothers me in your input that you had practice Chi Kung for 20+ years and your health is still improving. Can you elaborated little more on that like what kind of breathing did you do while practicing.... ???

OK. This is high level of Chi Kung with the muscles contracted and must be done with deep breathing. He was showing how to balance himself. To balance oneself requires muscle contraction to control all the muscles in the body. You notice his arms and legs were holding so close together was for a better balance. When he was standing on one leg, his tension was all on that one leg to support the weight of his whole body.

BTW I have seen this clips quite a few time too. Most people think it was Qi. I am considering it was to be Jin also. My explanation is that he had activated all the mitochondria in his body muscles to generated the body energy(ATP). I am not at his level, but I can do it at some point to Fa Jin to impress my friends. They do envy me sometimes. The reason I said he was Fa Jin because his hand was tremoring as one of the white spectators describes it. As a matter of fact, I can Fa Jin and sending any women to fly away, sometimes, men at my size too. My wife hates that when I do that to her.

Well, I don't do anything, fanatically, which I don't believe in... If I do it for that reason and keep on tacking and counting on the breaths, I will loose my mind. Speaking about regulating the mind....??? PS... I had shot his method down in the Hong Kong Chi Kung site once before.

What are the other things, is breathing included...??? If yes, to what extent of breathing...??? I try to be more accurate; and I am not familiar with the "mind method". Can you be more specific and describe the "mind methods"...??? Thank you.

Here is the statistic for my survey. These people claimed that they are in better health or healthier than before practicing Chi Kung. 1 .-K- 3 yrs with belly breathing(abdominal breathing) 2. Scotty: Always feel good and don't get sick. 3. Informer: "I don't get sick anymore. Other than allergies and a bit of sneezing, my body destroy's any infections before they can get a foothold." 4. OldGreen: "Physically i have always been in good health. Emotionally and spiritually speaking i am a lot healthier, very balanced, less anxiety." 5. Bauguakid: 20+ years; health is still improving. 6. Lifeforce: 9 yrs, 1. Increased energy and concentration. 2. A sense of extreme well-being and contentment with life. 3. The immune system is significantly boosted. I very rarely suffer from colds, flu, and viral infections. 7. LBDaoist: 9 yrs, "Better flexibility. Less serious illness. Positive vibrations and improved connectedness with those around me." 8. ChiDragon: 1. 36 years(Tai Ji and Chi Kung). 2. Whenever I can. 3. Healthy sights: a. Corrected my breathing Problem and no more hypoxia, b. Have lots of Jin, c. Great muscle tone, d. Improved eye sights. e. Sing like a baritone, f. Fast reflexes and more alert, g. Strong wrist, arms and legs. h. Faster reaction on the road and had avoided numerous of car accidents, i. Did not get sick in the last seven to eight years since practicing Chi Kung, j. Increase of libido. 4. With lots of abdominal breathings.

Don't be silly. 1. It doesn't matter by the number of breaths or percentage or exhale through the mouth. It was the amount of oxygen inside the lungs that really counts. If you inhale then exhale too soon, eventually, you have wasted the unused portion of oxygen in the body. 2. Don't believe everything that somebody tells you and use common sense. PS... It seems like that somebody does not have any scientific knowledge about breathing and oxygen. Edited to revise line 1 to read. 1. ......It was the amount of oxygen and carbon dioxide inside the lungs that really counts. PSS... I was surprised that nobody challenge me on this one.

I do not have to wait for 100 days and tell you now. I have been breathing like this by the minute 7/24. Now, I am in front of my monitor sitting on a flat end table in a zezen position and do abdominal breathing as my normal breathing habit. When I watch TV, I am sitting on a 24 inch diameter flat table six inches above the floor and do abdominal breathing. I did not get sick in the past seven to eight years. I will have a scientific explanation to tell you why I don't get sick because I have enhanced my immune system from this breathing method. I don't care who takes my words or not because in works based on my own believes. Edited to add: I heard lots of Chi Kung experts here talking about their learned method and theories; but so far, I haven't seen much of their experiences and results posted in my other thread.