ChiDragon

Very good. I was thinking about the same thing during my lunch. If I look at it objectively: 1. It would be the fundamental definition to work with as the method or procedure to get to 2. 2. It is the result that we are tried to achieve from Chi Kung. IMO The first definition fits prefect for the definition of Chi Kung as opposed to the second. In the Chinese language, the second definition was, only, applied to the scholastic achievements. Therefore, we can eliminate the second definition as the basic meaning for Chi Kung by deductive reasoning.

Hi, guys Let's see is this correct...??? 1. We are here together was by fate. 2. It was our destiny for us being together.

I know what you are saying about the other things are Qigong. The problem with it, it just meant to be come out that way in English because that was how the English speaking Chinese Qigong masters expressed it. In my side of the story, the native Qigong masters did not express the same way as in English. Another problem was that I cannot accept it due to the inconsistency from everyone of them. To me, the qi in qigong means "breathing" and Qigong is the breathing method. Anything outside of that will throw me off. It just won't work for me. They are too many meanings converged to the character "qi". It is very chaotic to me. I am working very well with my own narrow definition. It may be referred as 'vital energy' but it is not something that we can breathe into our lungs. We can only breathe in air into our lungs. Qi may be referred as 'vital energy' only if we are talking about physiology but not in breathing. If people say "breathe in the heaven qi" or "earth qi". It makes no sense to me because it says: Breathe in the vital energy from heaven or earth. Do you see what I am saying...???

What I am looking for is something referred back to compound characters in yuanfen 缘份. It means like we are meant to be met or mean to be together. "Meant to be" was the meaning I was after. Thanks again. PS... I like your last remark about 'Gwai Lo'.

Friend... This is the whole foundation for Chi Kung. The abdominal breathing is the ultimate goal of Chi Kung. To go beyond that is to make it as your natural breathing habit...

'Laowai' was referred to as a foreigner. It is a little bit derogatory. In a way, it has an implication of "what you foreigners know...???".... Sorry, Laowai, you were way off.... :D

Yes and no. As an adjective is correct but I am looking for a noun.

1. The impolite comments directed at my teachers were uncalled for. It sure did came out that way, wasn't it...??? Sorry, I did not make myself understood. Anyway, at times, when I made comments was about the issues but not the persons that are involved. 2. I was not really against the other method or style. It was just the way that I saw the story had changed and not exactly transposed into English. The reason for this dilemma, here, was my stubbornness for sticking to my own definitions. The trouble comes from that I had tried to compare my definition with others. In my mind, I like to keep everything in perspective with consistency. Thus it becomes very sensitive when I see other definitions were not consistent with mine. Unfortunately, I must admit this is one of my weaknesses which need to be cultivated. Peace and thanks.

Baguakid... You know when I first saw your nickname, I got curious about you. Now you have spoken to reveal yourself to give me an opportunity to understand you and your personality. It was amazing after one listen to the words used by a person, right away, one can get the first impression of that person. Thank you for your comments, they are very true about my personality. Besides, it was more related to personality than cultural in my case. I like your comments about Yuanfen 缘份 and Wuxing 悟性. I am always curious and tried to find a good English word for this character 缘. Based on your Chinese and English knowledge, can you come up with an English word for me...?? Thanks...

dawei... I took the Yang style 108 movements. Qigong was somthing I put together based on my Tai Ji experience and reading both Chinese materials on books written by Tai Ji masters and study physiology on my own with a very good English book. Based on the combination of all these information. I may be considered that I was enlightened in the concepts of Chi Kung. I don't want to give people the impression that I am BS about my own developed Chi Kung method. I had practiced my own method for the last seven to eight years. It takes less space; and best of all, I can practice it at anytime and anywhere. It really works for me. Also, I have my wife practice it and works for her too. It helped to improve her health condition during her menopause. I'm glad that you are interested. I would like to start a new thread to share it with everybody.

I started taking Tai Ji lessons since 1975 and practiced until now. I start doing zazen meditation with breathing in last seven to eight years.

I can only speak for myself to answer your question since I have a little Chi Kung experience. Each individual breathes in a certain way, it can be said to be that is the normal or natural way. It may not be correct because it may a bad habit. Regardless, it is still the natural breathing for this particular individual. Now, we have to define what is the correct way of breathing. A correct way of breathing is to breathe like a baby which is abdominal breathing. The normal sequence is from the nose, to the throat, to the chest, then to the abdomen. Now-a-days, an adult does not breathe like a baby anymore. There are some people only take shallow breaths which will cause chronic illnesses due to hypoxia, the lack of oxygen. To correct this problem, people have to learn to do chest breathing. At first, they have to breath like they normally do. Then try to learn to breathe deeper and deeper progressively inch by inch until the breath reach down to the chest. Then, the ultimate goal was to breathe down to the abdominal like a baby... PS... Once I bad a breathing problem, I took Tai Ji lessons and practice daily to correct it. At the beginning, I was told to breathe naturally. My natural breathing, at first, was the same way as I was having a problem.

Really.........??? Yes, tests has been done on sprint runners. The tests were done based on the lack of oxygen inside the body. They must not consume all of the oxygen in their body before reaching their destiny. They must breathe hard and fast to replace the oxygen that was converted into ATP energy, so they can continue running with their muscles. A sprint runner consumes the oxygen faster than he can breathe. As in chi kung, the oxygen was more provided than it can consume.

1. To me, if a Tai Ji practitioner has reached a level that he can Fa Jin, then he is good. If one can Fa Jin, he has already incorporated the proper training of timing, breath, posture, and Qi cultivation. 3. Fighting in a match would be the last thing that a Tai Chi practitioner to be considered of.

Ｉ can't argue about that....

Nowhere, nowhere, just like the beginning....

Yes! He doesn't know; but he is going to find out and justify how the breath(qi) becomes "energy". He will have to borrow something from the western science for the explanation. The reason we breathe was to capture the oxygen in the air for our body cells. Then, the body cells will use the oxygen to combine with the glucose and convert it into energy. This energy is a biochemical energy called adenosine triphosphate(ATP). Our muscles require this biological useful energy for contraction. Thus we get an indication from this fact if we breathe more oxygen, then our body cells will generate more energy. A simple biochemical energy formula: Glucose + O2 = H2O + CO2 + Heat + Energy(ATP) The formula indicates: The increase of Oxygen, O2, will increase the chemical reaction to produce more energy. Hence, the reason for Chi Kung to take slow and deep breathing was to breathe in a maximum amount of oxygen possible in one inhalation. The slowness was for allowing ample of time for the red blood cells to collect the oxygen for the cell respiration enhancement. Edited to add: It is very peculiar. I've posted this information on a Chi Kung website in Hong Kong, nobody dare to argue with me. Even the Chi Kung master didn't say a thing about it. BTW he had some of the similar things posted on his site too.

Yes, another one of those good old explanations from a "laowai". Then all the loawai will use them to be throwing back at us natives. :D This is very amusing.

No offense, since you had brought it up, we don't call you "laowai", 老外, for nothing... PS... Since your mind had been made up already. There is no reason to go further, is it...?? Anyway, I tried to share. I apologize for causing all this confusion.

Yes, natural breathing is Wu Wei. However, Qigong requires effort for cultivation, thus it was not considered to be Wu Wei. My saying about natural breathing is for amateur because that is the first level of the breathing practice. The second level is to go into deeper breathing and more muscle contractions. Actually, I am trying to describe what is the involvement which is taken place during the different levels of practice. The involvement has to have some kind of basic definitions to make it easier to explain.

How do you justify that...???

I do agree with the statement in bold. The basic principles you are referring to, don't they have to be originated from some kind of basic definition. As soon the basic definition was established, then we can go from there. If you say follow the basic principles, where are the basic principles coming from...??

It was so great about him was not in terms of Tai Ti Quang but it was his Tai Ji Jin(太極勁). If you understand what Jin(勁) is, then you'll know what I meant. I was talking about his Jin in his demo without his student or in contact with the student. His internal power or neigong is very powerful. Another word, he has been developed lots of Jin from his long periods of practice. If he showed some real internal power, then, his student will be dead instantly. Do you see what I am saying...???

"Forget about breathing. You will breath naturally." The practice of natural breathing was very true for a novice. As one progresses in the practice, at higher level, the breathing will be deeper and deeper. You may do natural breathing and stay at the amateur level if you want.