ChiDragon

Let me try to explain briefly why Chi Kung is the practice in breathing. First, let's see how the Chinese express breathing. They say it in two characters, 呼吸(hu1 xi1). 呼(hu1): Exhale 吸(xi1): Inhale 氣(chi): Air 呼氣(hu1): Exhale air 吸氣(xi1): Inhale air Hence 呼吸(hu1 xi1) is exhale and inhale. When the ancient Chinese practice 呼吸(hu1 xi1) deeply and slowly and discovered they had developed a tremendous of body strength or energy. Since they don't have any scientific knowledge to explain to them how was all these energy were developed inside their bodies, so, they came up with all kinds of tales. In the ancient times, the Chinese only knew they were existed between Heaven and Earth. So they considered themselves as Heaven-Human-Earth are united as one unity. So, the source of air(chi) they breathe has to come from Heaven and Earth. The source of air from Heaven was called the Chi of Heaven(天氣, tian1 chi); and from Earth was called Chi of Earth(地氣, di4 chi). They thought after breathing the (天氣, tian1 chi) and Earth(地氣, di4 chi) inside their bodies, these two chi's become a 和氣(harmonious chi). The 和氣(harmonious chi) then is circulating inside the body to give them a tremendous body energy. This 氣(Chi) idea was in the mind of the Chinese for a long time and still is. At first, the ancient practice 呼吸(hu1 xi1), exhale and inhale. When they inhale with the abdomen fully expanded was called 納(na4) and exhale with the abdomen tucked in was called 吐(tu3). Hence, the practice of exhale/inhale was called 吐納(tu3 na4). Some place along the line, 吐納(tu3 na4) ended up by calling it 氣功(Chi Kung). The idea is still known as exhaling and inhaling air. Originally, Chi is air; but the term 氣(Chi) was translated as "energy" into English. Now-a-days, the Chinese tend to call it energy too. However, the non-English speaking Chi Kung masters still referred as air. At the present, the term Chi in the west is "energy" and in the mind of the Chinese is either air or energy. For the most convenience, it was easier for the westerner to be accepted as energy because Chi does generate lots of body energy. Finally, let's not forget that the energy was obtained from breathing the air in space plus the food we ate, shall we give a little credit to "breathing" when we practice Chi Kung. After all, that was where the Chi came from, AIR....

赤子(red son or child): Actually, it means a new born male child.

Inhale for 1 minute is easy, but to exhale 1 minute is not. How long can you do it.....???

1. 36 years(Tai Ji and Chi Kung). 2. Whenever I can. 3. Healthy sights: a. Corrected my breathing Problem and no more hypoxia, b. Have lots of Jin, c. Great muscle tone, d. Improved eye sights. e. Sing like a baritone, f. Fast reflexes and more alert, g. Strong wrist, arms and legs. h. Faster reaction on the road and had avoided numerous of car accidents, i. Did not get sick in the last seven to eight years since practicing Chi Kung, j. Increase of libido. 4. With lots of abdominal breathings. PS... How about some more contributions from you Chi Kung experts out there...???

1. It would be a wishful thinking on my part to be elevated to this level. I don't believe it would be practical for me to dedicate all my time to reach this goal. Besides, I may not find a teacher without relocate. If I have to give you a hint to fulfill your curiosity, I would say I need to find a way to generate the body energy many many times more than normal to be emitted externally. 5. The rules of Qigong cannot be applied to the western methods because I've already pointed out the contrast between the two methods. Basically, the breathing and body movements in the western methods, such as boxing and aerobic, are jumping and moving at a higher speed. Despite to the Chi Kung method which require the feet to be on the ground at all times. Hence, jumping restricts the western method from appling to the rules of Chi Kung. Further more, some of the positions in callanetics do not allow the performance of abdominal breathing.

First of all, thank you for clearing all the mist in the air. I appreciate that... 1. It was beyond my level of understand because I am not there yet. It is not my ultimate goal for the time being. 2. Breathing and slow movements are the principle exercises that will effect the physical structure of the human body; breathing will help to enhance the body to function internally and slow movements will help to build up the muscle tone and exercise all the muscles and joints. The slowness of the movements was to apply stresses to the muscles slowly to prevent damaging the tissues and the joints. Especially, those who have not been exercising for awhile. In addition, the slowness will increase the reflexes of the arms and legs, of course, after a long period of practice. 3. Normally, push hand requires two persons to practice; but still, one person can be practiced by just going through the push hand movements. 4+5. The Western Methods tend to consume lots of body energy, at a faster rate, while doing the exercise. The breathing rate was much faster. Thus all the oxygen, in the lungs, did not stay long enough to allow the red blood cells to be collected. Some of the unused portion will be exhaled too soon. While all the body energy have being consumed, there was not enough oxygen for the body cells to generate the energy quick enough for the muscles to be used for contraction. There is a special method was used, in Chi Kung, called the abdominal breathing. What it does was to increase the volume of the lung to allow more air to be stored while doing slow and deep breathing. While the oxygen was being used to generate the body energy, the body was not consuming much energy due the slow movements. Thus the body has more energy readily available to be used. In summary, the western method consumes more energy and cause hypoxia. The abdominal breathing and slow movements in Chi Kung allow the body cells to generate more energy than the body was consumed. That is why a Chi Kung practitioner does not get fatigue quickly. Indeed, the major difference between the Western Method and Chi Kung can be shown by the fact that a boxer gets fatigue after practice, while the Chi Kung practitioner is more energetic.

Chapter 59 1. Ruling a country with natural endowments, 2. It was nothing like preserving a good health. 3. Thus only preserving a good health, 4. It was said to be an early preparation. 5. Preparation was said to be serious accumulation of virtue. 6. Accumulation of virtue then it's invincible. 7. If one is invincible, then it's difficult to evaluate one's ultimate power. 8. Not knowing one's ultimate power, then one is able to assume the responsibility of a country; 9. And by protecting a country, thus that will be long lasting, 10.It was said to be ineradicable, 11.And that was the principle of existentialism. Chapter 59 1. 治人事天， 2. 莫若嗇。 3. 夫唯嗇， 4. 是謂早服； 5. 早服謂之重積德； 6. 重積德則無不克； 7. 無不克則莫知其極； 8. 莫知其極，可以有國； 9. 有國之母，可以長久； 10. 是謂深根固柢， 11. 長生久視之道。

I see............. Perhaps, it is better to close this discussion with an open mind one way or the other.....

Yes, I am lack of exposure to non-breath based system. It was because I am only interested in the breathing system like Chi Kung. Chi Kung is more advantageous over the non-breath system. Non-breath system is for one with a good physical body as opposed to a weaker person. A weaker person may have some illnesses and need to be cured or need improvement for a better physical fitness. Besides, Chi Kung will also cover the benefits of the non-breathing system. It might take a little time. That' all. PS... I didn't know that was our original argument. I like that, Scotty. That was real cute...

OK. This is my understanding. I said all forms of Chi Kung involve with breathing. I think someone disagree with that in the first place. Am I correct on this...???

Yes, me too. Too bad he gave up with some unanswered questions.

I was just repeating what you guys had said. I've found out why you guys said that. It was the terminology you guys had taught differently. It doesn't matter what, I see the word "Qigong" was in every term which causing some confusion.

Hi, GOOWDAY... Welcome...!!! What a coincidence, I am doing the same thing. You know what...??? I use to spell Tao Te Jing this way.

I'll say it was not a language problem but a personal one.

1. Tai Ji is a form of Chi Kung. Do we agree with this or not...??? If not, don't worry about it. If yes, then I did not reinvent anything. You just didn't give me a chance to finish my story then jump to your own conclusion. 2. Are you still hung up on that...??? 3. I love your accusations, it's kind of giving me a jolt toward enlightenment and to keep me alert. I do appreciate your last statement; but I wonder how did you get that idea...??? Are you trying to twist things around again as always. We say 外功 is external practice but not 外氣功(External Qigong). It was the English terms that you gave me threw me off.

OK. I made an error in my last statement. Let me rephrase: Now, I know why the Western Qigong practitioners say breathing is not necessarily associated with "Qigong" in few cases.

All the above are not my expectations. Also, the terminology used here are very strange to me. Except I can answer this one: 1. Is your practice external as defined above? My answer is yes only, and only if, with the word "Qigong" crossed out as indicated.

A. OK. B. I can't go on like this because the terminology in English was completely different in Chinese. I know why we don't think alike because we are isolated with a new language barrier between us. The Beijing University of Chinese Medicine, Dept of Qigong says: D. 外功 - External Qigong stresses movement [in self practice]. E. 外功 - Qigong to strengthen the muscles, tendons and bones in the 'separating form' and the 'joining form'. The best known dynamic style is the Muscle/Tendon Classic. You see there are some discrepancies in the terms D and E between the Chines and English which threw me off. D. 外功 to me is external practice; External Qigong means 外氣功 which makes no sense to a Chinese speaker. E. I am totally lost by the word "Qigong" in the description despite to the 外功. Now, I know why the Western Qigong practitioners say breathing is not necessarily associated with "Qigong"

You left out my mentioning of breathing. I haven't talked about levels of practice yet. This is just barely the beginning, I thought we are still in the primary discussion. BTW What is your definition of a non-novice practice....??? Edited to add: What is EXTERNAL Qigong...???

The Yi is spontaneous, as soon the Yi was initiated, you breathe and move the arms and legs before you knew it without any imagination. Imagination to me is to think before and determine what do I want to do with my hands and legs. I think Friend's meaning about "imagination" in his original question is different then the way you have it. There is form of meditation which requires imagination. I was assuming that was what he meant.

I am abide by my definition of Chi which is "air and breath". There are oxygen(Chi) flowing in the blood for the air(Chi) that we breathe.

1. So far, this only a general discussion about what Chi externally, I haven't got into what is taken place inside the body biologically. Besides, iron shirt is beyond my knowledge here. 2. It may be EMF. My main concern here about Chi Kung is strictly for health reason and how it is effecting my body. 3. TCM is outside the scope of this thread, this is not the place for me to discuss it. 4. Those are the description terms people used in TCM, they did not make much sense to me.

"sending and absorbing Qi", 1. Sending Chi would be breathing air into my body by inhalation; and absorbing Qi would absorbing oxygen. Yes, it is also part of Qigong achievement. 2. The only awareness was to concentrate on my breathing and movements. 3. I do not use imagination, that will distract my concentration. 4. The "breath work and slow movement" cannot be separated. It is the combination of the Dynamic Chi Kung. One can do breath work as Static Chi Kung without the slow movement. As far as the slow movement was concern, it was recommended for a novice in Tai Ji. 5. I am not quite sure what you are asking, would you please rephrase the question...??? Thanks.

Baguakid... My problem was that you had labeled "no breath Qigong" for the two videos. I am still trying to digest that. As far as I know, with my Tai Chi experience, pushing hand requires special breathing from the practice in the past. There is an old martial saying: "Have Chi have strength" 有氣有力. While moving the arms and legs, at the same time one has to be breathing deeply and slowly. May be you have not noticed that in your practice. If you don't that special breathing, you will become weaken as you burnt up your body energy.

dawei... I think we are going somewhere here which will lead us into the climax of this thread. 1. The "Qi" is referring to air and breathing. 2. Thank you for give me good examples to be discussed. a. The Qi in the foods was referred as the nutrients, minerals and vitamins. b. The Qi in the air may be referred as oxygen and other things. The ancient said: "Exhale the air but retain the Qi". Actually, the modern people are saying: Exhale the carbon dioxide and retain the oxygen. PS.... All the 'Qi's mentioned here are the sources of energy rather than the energy itself.