ChiDragon

I do agree with the statement in bold. The basic principles you are referring to, don't they have to be originated from some kind of basic definition. As soon the basic definition was established, then we can go from there. If you say follow the basic principles, where are the basic principles coming from...??

It was so great about him was not in terms of Tai Ti Quang but it was his Tai Ji Jin(太極勁). If you understand what Jin(勁) is, then you'll know what I meant. I was talking about his Jin in his demo without his student or in contact with the student. His internal power or neigong is very powerful. Another word, he has been developed lots of Jin from his long periods of practice. If he showed some real internal power, then, his student will be dead instantly. Do you see what I am saying...???

"Forget about breathing. You will breath naturally." The practice of natural breathing was very true for a novice. As one progresses in the practice, at higher level, the breathing will be deeper and deeper. You may do natural breathing and stay at the amateur level if you want.

氣功 was know to the Chinese civilization for more than two centuries. It was introduced to the other parts of the world in 1949. Qigong was only the phonetics in pronouncing these two characters. FYI It's real meaning means breathing exercise. But somebody translated that "qi" as "energy". That was why the notion of qi as energy took off like mad. Then, the people in the world start imaging what they thought it was and created many fancy names and write books about it to make lots of money with misconceptions and misleading information.

Qigong are mainly breathing with the body movements and mind exercises know as Dynamic Qigong. However, the last two exercises are optional. e.g. Sitting Qigong was mainly breathing without body movements or mind exercises. PS... This thread is necessary to clarify some of the misconceptions and misunderstanding about Qigong once and for all. One can assume what it was any way s/he wants, of course, with many fallacies.

1. That's where you had it all wrong due to the lack of understanding of the language and depends on some misfed information. Please read dawei's post above. 2. Needless to say. 3. Neigong simply means internal practice. Any breathing exercise was consider to be neigong. By the Chinese definition, Qigong is a breathing exercise, thus Qigong is part of Neigong. In general, it's not the other way around. 4. Qigong is too vague, too general, and is not used by top level masters I have met. That was the only way you were taught. Yes, you didn't learned from the tradition way. Somebody had reinvented the wheel for you and misinformed you. 5.This is not a very good general statement. BTW all martial arts depends on breathing, but Qigong was emphasized on slow and deep breathing. Happy Qigong or Chi Kung breathing....

One does not has to be in contact with anyone to see how good the person is. One can tell by the way he practice to determine what level he is in. If one practice long enough, one can tell the level of the others. The practitioner in the first video, he was using lots of Jin in his moves. I know he is not a novice but a real Tai Ji master. I don't want to mess with him.

I was just curious about the way you were talking about Fa Jin for being a Tai Chi practitioner.

Perhaps, you may not to buy the CD after all. My body tells me that I don't since my Tai Ji practice in 1975.

Now this is Tai Ji Gong, the highest level of Tai Ji that one would like to be achieved. A real Tai Ji master does not need to jump and move around as much. Anyone has to move so much, jumping up and down, fall with the opponent and does lots of kicking, that was the combination of American boxing and wresting. It may not be called Tai Ji.

Please just don't forget to neglect this unimportant fact. It says it all. PS... The more we learn, the less we know.

dawei.... My reference: 氣功（炁功）是透過以呼吸[1]的調整、身體活動的調整和意識[2]的調整（調息，調形，調心）為鍛煉方法，務求達到強身健體、健康身心、抗病延年、開發潛能等目的。 Chi Kung are to go through the adjustment of breathing, the adjustment of the body activity and the intend of the mind(breathing, physical, mind) as the fundamental for cultivation. The goal is to enhance the health of the body, mental health, immune system, brings out the ultimate potential of the human body. Your reference: In summary, Qi Gong takes "body regulation", "breath regulation", and "mind regulation" as its three key components. Qi Gong emphasizes the cultivation and the harmony of human beings with the nature, Thank you. Since have you a good Chinese source, it would be a good idea to use them to be compared with the understanding of the western Chi Kung practitioners.

Mal... How long have you been practicing Tai Ji Quan....???

Please read my original post. BTW If you haven't sensed that the intention of this thread was to tell the Chinese side of the story, then I'm so sorry. However, if the westerner stories are going to be presented here again, then it would be defeated to whole purpose of this thread.

屯(Zhun1) - MWD; Hendricks translates as dull/depressed; but Hex 3 means difficult [at first] 偆 - FuYi; Happy 醇(chun2) - HeSheng Gong ; Pure (like unadulterated alcohol, not alcohol radical) 淳(chun2) - WB printed by everyone but not what he used: Simple, Genuine, pure, honest, 惇 - WB used this; and his notes too: Kindhearted, honest 純(chun2) - Huainanzi uses this when quoting the four lines: Pure, simple, unmixed All these characters almost sounded alike, at different times, phonetics were used because each codex was made from an oral recital. That was why we see different characters with the same phonetics. Later scholars had discover that 淳(chun2) has the proper meaning of the character to be used in the Received copy. BTW The Received version was so close to the WB version because it was based on WB's copy.

LaoTze only cares for the good results. Zhuang Tze couldn't careless as long it doesn't bother him.

It is too difficult to cite a Chinese website to someone that cannot read the language. To translate it, then something gets lost in the translation. 吐納(tu3 na4) was the original Chinese term for the practice of Chi Kung. Anyway, shall we stay within the discussion of the method rather than looking into its history...???

Did you know if there is no breathing involvement, then it was not considered to be Chi Kung. ..??? This is the message I'm trying to bring across. You have had bad experiences with methods that regulate breathing, because you did not do it right and that's why people take Chi Kung lessons to improve their breathing. To be honest with you, if one has no improvement in breathing, then there is no health improvement as one of the claims by the art of Chi Kung.

Please don't close your door because it is wikipedia or a different language. There are lot of good information in them. I know you don't read Chinese, that's why I had translated into English. It is something to be considered here. I practice Tai Chi and Chi Kung based on the concepts specified here. It was the original concept on Chi Kung. You cannot read any material about Chi Kung without a mention of breathing as a fundamental factor.

tulku... If you want to learn Chi Kung, learn to breathe.

My advice to you is if you don't have at least five years of Chi Kung experience, please don't fool with this kind of stuff. You are going to hurt your body more than your sexual enjoyment.

Stigweard... I have the impression that you are a Tai Chi instructor, am I correct....??? Personally, I choose to neither believe nor disbelieve but to be experienced myself.

dawei.......... That was exactly where I am tried to get to. I do appreciate your humblest opinion. You said it all and said it well. I thank you very much....

Very good, even more technical terms are created, in English, to confuse the western public... BTW I was not fond of the Chinese definition of 衛氣(Wei Qi) neither. I am also very disappointed that there are so many people who practice and teach Tai Chi Quan without knowing the definition of Jin nor how to recognize the demonstration of Fa Jin. I am speechless....

1. The government seems dull and depressing, 2. Then, the people are primitive and simple. 3. The government seems harsh and acrimonious, 4. Then, the people are cunning and sanctimonious. 13.Only a sage with corners which do not cut, 14.Sharp but harmless, 15.Blunt but not intemperate, 16.Bright but not dazzling, 5. Misfortune leaning against fortune, 6. Fortune hidden in misfortune. 7. Who knows the ultimate outcome? 8. There is no answer. 9. Truth become fallacy 10.Kindness become devilish. 11.The people are living with confusion, 12.These kind of days had been too long. Note:Please notice the order if the lines had been changed to keep the logic flow. 58 1. 其政悶悶， 2. 其民淳淳。 3. 其政察察， 4. 其民缺缺。 5. 禍尚福之所倚。 6. 福尚禍之所伏。 7. 孰知其極， 8. 其無正。 9. 正復為奇， 10.善復為妖。 11.人之迷其日固久。 12.是以聖人 13.方而不割。 14.廉而不劌。 15.直而不肆。 16.光而不燿。