ChiDragon

Riyue... 1. 無名天地之始。 2. 有名萬物之母。 3. 無,名天地之始。 4. 有，名萬物之母。 How would you translate these four lines...???

吾不知, 誰之子, 象帝之先 Translation: I don't know who's son that he is. It seems like before all the gods.

"I meant 3 second inhale and 2 second exhale. 1. anyone have any idea why the longer inhale vs. the shorter exhale? 2. The important thing is that it cycles 12 times per minute." ************************************************************************************** 1. The reason we want to inhale longer is to breathe in more oxygen. When exhale, we want to breathe out the carbon dioxide. At the same time, we don't want to breathe out the rest of the unused oxygen. 2. That will keep a balance of oxygen and carbon dioxide so the blood vessels do not constrict to cause hypertension. Also, to maintain the pH at 7 to prevent to have too much acid in the blood.

Yes, that was exactly what I was trying to lead him to. 1. Yes, please try to understand the whole procedure before you do it. This is a matter of life and breath. 2. Don't try to stop your breathing as a beginner, you are not ready for that yet. That is why you are having headaches. The reason we breath is try to bring lots of oxygen into the lungs to distribute through out the body and the brain. If you don't provide enough oxygen to your brain, you will feel dizzy and have headaches. When you mediate, right now as a novice, try to just breath as you normally do. Try to feel where your breath stops as a reference point. The goal is to make your breath go though that reference point until reach the abdomen, but not in one day. You must do it slowly, it may that days, weeks, months or even years. Another word, do rush it and do it at your own pace. BTW It took me years of practice to hold my breath for one minute. The key is how long you can hold your breath depends how much oxygen can you breathe into your lungs in one inhalation. That is why abdominal breathing is so important in Chi Kung because it allows your lungs to increase to the highest capacity to hold a maximum amount of air or oxygen. If you can keep this in mind, you have won half the battle already.

Infinite Truth... Based on your statement and according to my experience, I think you are trying to learn to breathe from the book without a full understand how to start practice Chi Kung. I would like to inform you that you have to go through different stages of breathing before you can perform abdominal breathing. Without the fundamental breathing method and skip to abdominal breathing, you will feel all kind of air sickness. I can guide you through it if you are really interested. First, you take a normal breath without forcing it and let know me where did your breath stop. Then we go from there. Is that a deal...???

Thank you for your warm welcome............... Would you please shed some lights, for me, on your practices....??? Thanks.

I do abdominal breathing all day as my normal breathing habit. What are you really asking here.??? 3 second inhale and a 2 second inhale....??? OR 3 second inhale and a 2 second EXhale....??? The former serves no purpose. The latter is more practical and makes more sense.

Chapter 80 doesn't ring the bell...

"That ain't never gonna' happen." Exactly. Throughout the Tao Te Ching, LaoTze's philosophy was based on his famous slogan "Wu Wei". He defined Wu Wei as being natural; let thing be as they are; let Nature take its course. His ideas are too idealistic and impractical to make things to happen in the real world. However, this is, only, one of the chapters which reflects LaoTze's pipe dream. All the Chapters with Wu Wei in them are, almost, his principles suggesting how a ruler should handle his people. PS... Sometimes, I got carried away when things come to the TTC. Please do not hesitate to let me know if I'm out of line.

ahhh......Marblehead I don't see any rocks in your head. How did you ended up with such a humble nickname...??? You are so Wu Wei by just letting Nature take its course. A true Taoist do not compete but placing himself behind and ended up in front.... Yes, LaoTze was very clever in using the multi-definition of yo(you), wu, Tao, tao, and Te to express his principles. I know you don't mind me showing my justification for the conclusion of the translations.

By the definition of Chapter 1: 有(you): Visible; Tao is 1; the tangible state of Tao. 無(wu): Invisible; Tao is 0; the intangible state of Tao. By the definition of Chapter 40: 1. 天下萬物生於有， 2. 有生於無。 1. All things came from you(有,1); 2. And you(有,1) came from wu(無,0). All things came from Visible(1). And Visible(1) came from Invisible(0). Chapter 42: 1. 道生一。 1. Tao engenders One; Tao(0) engenders One(1), thus Invisible engenders Visible. 2. 一生二。 2. One engenders Two; Visible(1) engenders Two. Thus, Two is the Yin and Yang. 3. 二生三(Two engender three). 4. 三生萬物(Three engender all things). 3. Yin and Yang united as the three, 4. The essence of all things.

FYI... Dan-tien has nothing to do with the Tao Te Ching. It was a term only used by the martial artists to indicate the location where the belly is but not the belly itself. Please do not confuse yourself and create a fallacy within the interpretation of the Tao Te Ching.

Chapter 37 - 1. 道常無為， 2. 而無不為。 3. 侯王若能守之， 4. 萬物將自化。 5. 化而欲作， 6. 吾將鎮之以無名之樸。 7. 無名之樸， 8. 夫亦將無欲。 9. 不欲以靜， 10.天下將自定。 Translation in terse English... 1. Tao always being natural, 2. Then, nothing cannot by done. 3. If rulers can follow it, 4. All things will self transform. 5. After development and become extravagant, 6. I'll suppress them back to the primitive nameless state, 7. At the nameless state, 8. Then, will have no desire, 9. No desire but calm, 10 Hence, world peace will be self maintained.

Chapter 12 - The Extravagant World 1. 五色令人目盲 2. 五音令人耳聾 3. 五味令人口爽 4. 馳騁畋獵 5. 令人心發狂 6. 難得之貨 7. 令人行妨 8. 是以聖人為腹不為目 9. 故去彼取此 Translation in terse English 1. Five colors blind the eyes of the beholder. 2. Five tones make people deaf. 3. Five flavors numb the human mouth. 4. Hunting on horse back, 5. Make people's heart go insane. 6. Rare obtainable goods, 7. Make people behave nefariously. 8. A wise man lives for his belly but not for the eyes. 9. Therefore, discard the latter and keep the former.

I was practicing the Yang style Tai Chi Quan and Tai Chi Qigong(Chi Kung). Tai Chi Qigong also known as Tai Chi Kung(Gong) for short. Tai Chi Quan is the basic form for a beginner to start with. After a long period of practice, when the breathing level had reached the abdominal level. Then, go to the next level which is Tai Chi Kung. In the practice of Tai Chi Quan, the arm and leg movements are significant and breathing is secondary. It is because the movements will guide the breathing from shallow to deep until it reach the abdomen. In general, the abdomen was referred as the dan-tien. In modern term is called abdominal breathing at this stage of the practice. The Chinese called that as the Chi(breath) sunk to the dan-tien which is really abdominal breathing. After the abdominal breathing was attained, then do the Tai Chi Kung. Tai Chi Kung involves more in breathing to guide the movements of the body. In Tai Chi Quan the arms and legs are relax while doing the movements and breathe naturally. As in Tai Chi Kung, the strength were applied to the arms and legs while performing abdominal breathing. This will solidify all the muscle in the body during inhalation which make you the strongest person in the world at that moment. During exhalation, you will relax all your muscles, then you would be the weakest at that moment. Tai Chi Quan also builds up your muscle tone and increase the speed of the reflex after a long period of time. Tai Chi Kung will increase your muscle tone even greater with more body strength. You can almost lift up more weights and hold it a lot longer than before. At this time, you have to be careful who and how you touch somebody. You must learn to control your own strength with your mind.

No, I do not encourage this practice.

Bendowa... It's hard to time your breathing at the beginning; why don't you just breathing like you normally do and increase the time progressively. The idea is not to force yourself to do something that you are not accustomed to. In your case, just do a 18 second breathing for a while until you are really comfortable with it, then do 19, 20, 21...30 second progressively. FYI For my research, you may read the article from below to get an idea. From this article, if you click "See all Articles by James", then you can see the rest of my articles. http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/Scientific_Explanation%20.html

Stan... Natives do not have the burden to translate the classic text but just do the interpretation. However, there will be problems if the character were translated into another language. It will cause mistranslation; from the mistranslation will cause misinterpretation. Even the translation was correct, it can still be misinterpreted due to some cultural differences in philosophy. First of all, when I said this as a difference in Eastern vs Western philosophy, I meant the interpretation between my translation and your interpretation. Anyway, to answer your question, the Tao Te Ching was written for all eras and regions. However, LaoTze's idea was too idealistic and too practical. His ideals in the Tao Ta Ching was adapted in the Han dynasty and works well. However, it didn't work too well in other era or region because the rulers did not want to follow the principles in the Tao Te Ching.

Thanks for the welcome. I have practiced Tai Chi for many years and then Tai Chi Qigong. I studied the Yi Jing and Tao Te Ching to learn all about the yin-yang concept. Since from practicing Chi Kung which gave me a tremendous of body energy, I have been trying to integrate the Chi Kung concept with the western modern science by studying physiology and the function of the human body. I have a great advantage of looking into two sides of the world, for my research, due to my bilingual capability. I have realized that no matter what kind of Chi Kung or any kind of martial arts do have something in common: breathing and muscle contraction. By knowing the this two things, one can do all kind of body movement will give you the same health effects. It that what you would like to know....???

"But alas, most people don't actually have a lower field! In the beginning, it's only a concept, a position somewhere inside the lower abdomen." Yes, no matter how you look at it. It was only conceptual. I do agree that there is also a language barrier. However, it is not on my part because I am really dealing with the direct contents from its origin. Maybe it would be wise for me not to participate in the discussion of this thread.

Yes, it was self understood. A Sage is still human. However, in general, the emphasis was placed on the notion of "his unselfishness".

Cauldron is a cooking ware. As I said before, dan-tien is only a given name for a location on your body.

Chapter 21 Manifestation of Tao Te 1. 孔德之容 2. 惟道是從。 3. 道之為物 4. 惟恍惟惚。 5. 惚兮恍兮 6. 其中有象。 7. 恍兮惚兮 8. 其中有物。 9. 窈兮冥兮 10. 其中有精。 11.其精甚真。 12.其中有信。 13.自古及今， 14.其名不去。 15.以閱眾甫。 16.吾何以知眾甫之狀哉！ 17.以此。 Revision 21-1 1. The appearance of great virtue; 2. Only trails Tao. 3. This thing, Tao, 4. It's dull and hazy. 5. Amongst the dullness and haziness, 6. It has images. 7. Amongst the haziness and dullness, 8. It has things. 9. Amongst the profusion and dimness, 10. It has the essence. 11. Its essence is real, 12. And promising. 13. From present to ancient, 14. Its name does not vanish. 15. Using it to observe the origin of all things. 16. I can recognize the original state of all things! 17. From it.

Yes, I see it as a difference between translation and interpretation or principle and application or the philosophies of the West and the East.

Chapter 7 - The Unselfishness 1. 天長地久。 2. 天地所以能長且久者， 3. 以其不自生， 4. 故能長生。 5. 是以聖人後其身而身先， 6. 外其身而身存。 7. 非以其無私邪！ 8. 故能成其私。 Translation in terse English... 1. Heaven and Earth are eternal. 2. The reason they are eternal, 3. Because they do not strive for themselves. 4. Therefore, they are eternal. 5. A gentleman always place himself behind but ended up in front. 6. One keeping oneself in a neutral position will survive. 7. Is not because of his unselfishness! 8. Which gained his personal accomplishment.