ChiDragon
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Everything posted by ChiDragon
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Well, there is a difference between translation and interpretation. It all depends on what the individual wants to do. One can translate then interpret with annotation or just go ahead to translate the direct meaning within context. Either way, there will be confusion and argument. To avoid confusion, I would like to translate the classic text as close as possible, so nothing gets lost. Then, I go from there with the interpretation and annotation.
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Line 7 of Chapter 1 7. 此兩者同出而異名， 7. ci3 liang3 zhe3 tong2 chu1 er2 yi4 ming2, The breakdown of line 7: a. 此兩者(ci3 liang3 zhe3): these two b. 同出(tong2 chu1): came from the same(origin) c. 而異名(er2 yi4 ming2): but differ in name Translation: 7. These two come from one origin but differ in name. Annotation: I was always wondering about what are "these two(此兩者) in line 7...??? If I look at it closely, then I realized they were referred 無(wu2) and 有(you3) to lines 3 and 4. Thus these two "that come from one origin but differ in name" These three lines are self explanatory... 3. Invisible was the name given to Tao at the origin of heaven and earth. 4. Visible was the name given to Tao as the mother of all things. 7. These two come from one origin but differ in name. Indeed, the logic of line 7 flows along with lines 3 and 4.
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Translation of lines 5 and 6 of Chapter 1 In lines 3 and 4, 無(wu2) and 有(you3) were treated as Nouns like Invisible and Visible respectively. However, in lines 5 and 6, 無(wu2) and 有(you3) were treated as adjectives. 5. 故常無,欲以觀其妙。 6. 常有,欲以觀其徼。 Pinyin: 5. gu4 chang2 wu2, yu4 yi3 guan1 qi2 miao4; 6. chang2 you3, yu4 yi3 guan1 qi2 jiao3. The breakdown of line 5: a. 故(gu4): therefore; hence; thus b. 常無(chang2 wu2): always none; implicating always invisible c. 欲以觀(yu4 yi3 guan1): would observe d. 其妙(qi2 miao4;): its subtlety; characteristic; quale The breakdown of line 6: a. 常有(chang2 you3): always have; always have been; implicating always visible. b. 欲以觀(yu4 yi3 guan1): would observe c. 其徼(qi2 jiao3): its boundary The translation of lines 5 and 6: 5. Hence, when Tao is always invisible, one would grok its quale. 6. When Tao is always visible, one would observe its boundary. Annotation: What these two lines are saying was: Hence the Invisible(Tao) is always invisible, we can only feeling the presence of Tao by our senses. When the Visible(Tao) is always visible, we can see its limitations by observing its highest capability.
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Lines 3 and 4, Chapter 1 3. 無,名天地之始。 4. 有,名萬物之母。 3. wu2 ming2 tian1 di4 zhi1 shi3; 4. you3 ming2 wan4 wu4 zhi1 mu3. The key characters of these two line are 無(wu2) and 有(you3). 1. 無(wu2): none, nothing, implying something was invisible 2. 有(you3): have, exist, implying something exited which was visible. 3. 名(ming2): to name 4. 天地之始(tian1 di4 zhi1 shi3): the beginning of heaven and earth. 5. 萬物之母(wan4 wu4 zhi1 mu3): the mother of all things. By the definition of lines 1 and 2, the eternal Tao cannot be given a name because a name can be named is not eternal. Therefore, the implication was that Tao can be given more than one name. Hence, LaoTze gave two names for Tao at the two states of its appearance. Tao was named 無(wu2), Invisible, at the beginning of heaven and earth; and Tao was named 有(you3), Visible, as the mother of all things were created. The proper translation for lines 3 and 4: 3. Invisible[無(wu2)] is at the origin of heaven and earth. 4. Visible[有(you3)] is the mother of all things. Let's put it into proper perspective: 3. Invisible was the name, given to Tao, at the origin of heaven and earth. 4. Visible was the name, given to Tao, as the mother of all things. ************************************************************************* These two lines are commonly mistranslated due the punctuation of the comma was placed at the wrong place as shown below. 3. 無名,天地之始。 4. 有名,萬物之母。 The compound characters would be translated as: a. 無名(wu2 ming2): no name; nameless b. 有名(you3 ming2): have a name; with a name c. 天地之始(tian1 di4 zhi1 shi3): the beginning of heaven and earth. d. 萬物之母(wan4 wu4 zhi1 mu3): the mother of all things. The mistranslation: 3. The nameless at the origin of heaven and earth. 4. There is a name for the mother of all things. Over here, "The nameless" may have an implication that Tao is the origin of heaven and earth. However, "There is a name" has no indication that Tao is the mother of all things.
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I keep getting attacked on the internet what do i do?
ChiDragon replied to mewtwo's topic in General Discussion
The Yin overcome the Yang. The softness overcome the hardness. That will soft he up. -
Line 2 of Chapter 1 2. 名可名，非常名。 2. ming2 ke3 ming2, fei1 chang2 ming2. a. 名(ming2): Name b. 可名(ke3 ming2): able to name; nameable; can be named c. 非(fei1): not d. 常名(chang2 ming2): eternal name Hence, the final translation for line 2 would be: 2. A name that can be named is not an eternal name. Annotation: 1. 道可道，非常道。 2. 名可名，非常名。 1. Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao. 2. A name that can be named is not an eternal name. In Chapter 1, lines 1 and 2, LaoTze was giving an implication that Tao is eternal because it cannot be described with one word or a single sentence. Since Tao is eternal, it cannot be given a name. Although a name was given to Tao, but Tao is still eternal. Tao cannot be described in one word or a single sentence. Therefor, Tao has to be described separately. Hence, that is why there are so many chapters in the Tao Te Ching to describe Tao. Tao appeared in each chapter with a different identity. LoaTze has a paradoxical way of building up the different characteristics of Tao from Chapter to Chapter. Sometimes, the thoughts about Tao were referred back and forth between the related chapters.
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Chapter 1 1. 道可道，非常道。 2. 名可名，非常名。 3. 無,名天地之始。 4. 有,名萬物之母。 5. 故常無,欲以觀其妙。 6. 常有,欲以觀其徼。 7. 此兩者同出而異名， 8. 同謂之玄。玄之又玄， 9. 眾妙之門。 1. Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao. 2. A name that can be named is not an eternal name. 3. Invisible was the name given to Tao at the origin of heaven and earth. 4. Visible was the name given to Tao as the mother of all things. 5. Hence, when Tao is always invisible, one would grok its quale. 6. When Tao is always visible, one would observe its boundary. 7. These two come from one origin but differ in name, 8. Both are regarded as fathomless; the most mysterious of the mysterious; 9. The gate of all changes. Here is the direct translation from the classic text of Chapter 1. I will go over line by line with annotations why they are translated this way. PS... Line 1 has been done already in the above post.
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To me, moving meditation is Chi Kung with slow movements; but I don't know how the term "moving meditation" was evolved.
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Meditation does help to heal a damaged tissue quicker but not in one day. However, it does not help tissues, like boobs, to grow bigger for sure.
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BTW Enlightenment is only by intuition with the wisdom of the enlightened one. Is it fair to say that one can be enlightened without spoken or defined but by grokking...???
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There was no indication in the past that LaoTze does Chi Kung or not. Tai Chi was not developed in his time. At LaoTze's time, there was no Taoist religion yet. The religion came after the Tao Te Ching was written. Then, people start interpreting the Tao Te Ching in anyway as they wanted to fit their own needs.
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Chapter 1 1. 道 可道，非 常道。 1. Dao4 ke3 dao4, fei1 chang2 Dao4; The first and third 道(dao4) is Tao itself as a proper noun. The second 道(dao4) is because with 可(ke3) in front of it as 可道(ke3 dao4) which made 道(dao4) as a verb. Here is the breakdown 1. 道(Dao4): Tao 2. 可道(ke3 dao4): able to speak; speakable; can be spoken 3. 非(fei1): not 4. 常(chang2): eternal, always; forever 5. 道(Dao4: Tao Hence, the final translation for line 1 would be: 1. 道可道，非常道。 1. Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao. Edited to add: 1. 道可道，非恒道。 The original character 恒(heng2) was in line 1. 恒(heng2) and 常(chang2) both have the identical meaning as defined above. Some place along the line 恒(heng2) was replaced with 常(chang2). It is because 恒(heng2) was the name of a king in the Han dynasty. It was forbidden to have the name of a king in any document at the time.
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I know the language pretty well and know exactly what you are asking. By 大道Da Dao - the Great Dao, actually it should be said: 1. 正道(zheng4 Dao) - the correct way. 2. 旁门Pang men(the side door) - the incorrect way(implication). Item 1 is self explanatory. Item 2: In the Chinese thinking, it means that anything was not taken the right approach was considered to be going through the side door. Another words, if one tries to speed up a process by going about doing it the wrong way or do something illegal to get to the final result. Indeed, these steps were done improperly were considered to be taken the side door to get there.
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Yes, I would think so. LaoTze's philosophy was so idealistic but too impractical to be carried out. The Tao Te Ching is a piece of stand alone document. So far, no one has the wisdom as same as LaoTze to come up with such a document. Even ZhuangTze, had to borrow his idea about Tao to come up with his own philosophy.
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No, I would think of it as such. I am so glad that you presented this constructive argument. At this point in time, it is not a concern of who LaoTze was. The Tao Te Ching was written in black and white. It is what it is says rather than what we think what it says. The first line says - whatever we try to write about the Dao is NOT the ETERNAL Dao rather than is NOT the Dao. I see that there was a big fallacy already. It seems to me that nobody closed the book after the reading the first line. Everybody had read further; and assumed what they think LaoTze was saying instead of what LaoTze has to say. Of course, there are native scholars with historical and cultural background helping them to have a succinct interpretation of the classic Tao Te Ching. Of course, nobody cares what the native scholars had to say neither.
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Yes, it was the "No actual separateness" that make the individuals not enlightened. What makes one enlightened is the separateness. Only the enlightened one see things that others do not see.
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If you don't see my next reply, it means I'm enlightened....
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What are your queries....??? Can share it with us...???
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It was my pleasure. I thank you for your interest and being a good listener.
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Why is everybody tend to define what Tao is by their own definition...??? Why don't we listen to LaoTze....??? Tao was defined by LaoTze In Chapters 1 and 14. Chapter 1 The definition of Tao 1. Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao. 2. A name that can be named is not an eternal name. 3. Invisible was the name given to Tao at the origin of heaven and earth. 4. Visible was the name given to Tao as the mother of all things. 5. Hence, when Tao is always invisible, one would grok its quale. 6. When Tao is always visible, one would observe its boundary. 7. These two come from one origin but differ in name, 8. Both are regarded as fathomless; the most mysterious of the mysterious; 9. The gate of all changes. ******************************************************** Chapter 14 The intangible Tao. 1. View it couldn't see, name and call it Colorless. 2. Listen to it couldn't hear, name and call it Soundless. 3. Touch it couldn't feel, name and call it Formless. 4. These three objects blended in one. 5. Its top not brilliant. 6. Its bottom nor dim. 7. Its continuance unnameable. 8. Returned to being nothing, 9. Is called form of no form. 10. An image of nothing, 11. Is called obscure. 11. Greet it cannot see its head. 13. Follow it cannot see its back. 14. Grasp the presence of Tao, 15. Driven all the present physical being 16. Able to understand the ancient origin, 17. It's called the Principles of Tao.
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If I tell you then, you won't be understood.
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To the best of my knowledge, whatever take place in the body just happen and always the same; and Chi Kung is just an enhancer. It is because by abdominal breathing will increase 20% of air intake to add more oxygen for cell respiration. At the last stage of Cell respiration requires a large amount of oxygen to produce the ATP. ATP is very important for the body to carry out the functions of all the internal organs. I do agree that the slow movements, in Chi Kung, increase muscle tone and the chemical activity of the muscles. Ever since I practiced Tai Chi and Taoist meditaion Chi Kung. I haven't got sick in the past seven years and not to mention the enhancement of libido.
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The good thing about Chi Kung is that there was no need for practitioners to take any supplement. Chi Kung will increase the production of bio-energy(ATP) to fine tune the body holistically.
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Humans are defining the term Wu Wei is too broad which looses its original TTC meaning. 1. Wu wei is an important concept of the Tao, Yes, it is an important concept of LaoTze, he was the one who define it in the TTC. 2. That involves knowing when to act and when not to act. This was not what the TTC was suggesting. This is on the part of us humans. 3. Wu Wei also means natural action--not forced or deviant--flowing from principles of the TTC. Humans can only follow the natural action as close as possible. 4. For the individual it would be a normal aspect of his/her behavioral repertoire. It would be 'spontaneous', not analytically deliberated. Yes, this is the part by following the principles of the TTC. 5. Just as, while it's natural for snow to fall in Scandinavia, it's natural for it not to fall in Central Africa. And, even while it is natural for snow to fall in Scandinavia, heavier snow falls are more natural in some areas than in others, and heavier snow falls occur naturally in some years than in others. So, it seems to me that when we speak of what is natural we are speaking not of a single, static position, but of a continuum reflecting both situation and time. Yes, this is all natural to all because this is all part of Nature. Nature is completely different from human individuals. 6. In speaking of Wu wei this fact is frequently missed by many commentators. And so when observing human action that is swift, decisive and aggressive they automatically label it as a violation of Wu wei, and it may not be. This all depends how each individual understand or define Wu Wei and abide by one's own definition.
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It takes an enlightened one to tell you what enlightenment is. How can an unenlightened one tell you what it is...??? I will come back and tell you what it is when I attained enlightenment.