ChiDragon

Oh, people All this talk about creating dan-tien. Did you know that there was no such thing as dan-tien...??? The term was created for the convenience of locating certain parts of the body. The upper, middle, lower part of the body are equivalent to the upper, middle, lower dan-tien. Please, dan-tien is only a location on your body. It was not created from practicing some kind of whatever.

It seems to me that there is something missing here about intent. LaoTze always concern about the negative side of matters. What he was suggesting is not to have an intent to cause any harm to Nature as being natural. In the contrary, he did not say anything about not to have a good intent for Nature.

I had specifically stated that the definition of Te stands alone in Chapter 51. Yes, it seems that you cannot unlearn what you had learned before. What I was telling you, stay within the definition which defined by LaoTze in Chapter 51 without any external influence. Chapter 51 is about pure Nature, thus there is no human nature involved. What said is all correct, but they do not apply in Chapter 51 because this chapter was establishing its own definition for Te. One must try to isolate all other ideas from the past experience for the interpretation this chapter. The whole Wu Wei concept was derived from this Chapter.

I had specifically stated that the definition of Te stands alone in Chapter 51. Maybe it seems vague to you because you are mixing external human emotions with Tao and Te. This chapter was very clear to me that Tao let Nature take it course be letting all things grow without any interference. LaoTze defined the Te is the actual virtue; Te(Chinese) = virtue(English). It seems to me you are looking at Te and virtue are two different things. Actually they carry the same meaning but the only difference between them are the two languages. Another word, Te is virtue; and virtue is Te. Therefore, I am not saying virtue is attribute to Te because Te and virtue are identical. This is the best I could explain it.

Rephrase... 10.Tao engenders all things, 11.Te fosters them. 12.Grow all things nourish them, 13.Let all things grow to maturity, 14.Foster all things and protect them. 15.Produce all things but not possess them. 16.Keep them but not restrain them, 17.Raise them but not control them, 18.Is the abyssal virtue(Te). These are all spelled out in Chapter 51, no where else.

Yes, these Virtues of Tao was considered to be the Wu Wei concept. If human follows the Wu Wei concept was considered to be 有道(you tao, small t) or virtuous. Yes, that was the reason why I am here.

zhan zhuang is a standing form of Chi Kung. There is no movement in the form but breathing is a very significant factor. To practice it is by standing with the knees bent at some angle. The lower the angle of the knees that can be bent which shows the progression of the practice. While standing, the hands are held in the air forming a circle as like you were holding a barrel. Yiquan is a form of exercise in moving the body freely and comfortably in high concentration with the mind.

Sorry, based on the presented facts, your friend did not perform any meditation at all. He was either didn't know how or somebody taught him incorrectly. In his heart, he was full of desire and wished to accomplish something that he is not capable of. As a result, he was frustrated and cannot have a peace of mind.

Chapter 51 1. 道生之：　Dao engenders all things， 2. 德育之：　Virtue fosters them. Here is the modern interpretation of the 道生之,德育之. 1. All things were evolved from a process that was existed in a natural environment. It was considered to be that Tao engendered them(道生之). 2. There is a nourishing procedure that was existed in a natural environment was utilized for the development of all things. It was considered to be that Te fostered them(德育之). By LaoTze's definition, the meaning of 德(Te) stands alone in Chapter 51. 1. Tao engenders it, 2. Te fosters it. 3. Matter forms it, 4. Environment grows it. 5. Hence, all things respect Tao and honor Te. 6. Tao's dignity, 7. Te's value. 8. Those were not interfered but let them be natural. 9. Therefore, 10.Tao engenders it, 11.Te fosters it. 12.Grow it nourish it, 13.Let it grow to maturity, 14.Foster it and protect it. 15.Produce it but not possess it. 16.Keep it but not restrain it, 17.Raise it but not control it, 18.Is the abyssal virtue. The virtues of Tao were defined by lines 12 through 18: 12.Grow it nourish it, 13.Let it grow to maturity, 14.Foster it and protect it. 15.Produce it but not possess it. 16.Keep it but not restrain it, 17.Raise it but not control it, 18.Is the abyssal virtue. Line 18 specifically pointed out that lines 12 through 17 are the Te of Tao.

Marblehead: "Ultimately the Virtue of Tao and the virtue of man are one and the same." Sorry, they are not the same. One cannot judge the TTC meaning of 德(Te) by the character itself. I am sure that you have doubt in your mind because you have distinguished the English word "virtue" with 'V' and 'v'. Marblehead: "Ah! What am I perhaps saying regarding Virtue and virtue? Hehehe. That is still a work in progress." I would like to work this with you if you don't mind. BTW That was my recent thought and starting a new thread on the subject. However, I held down the Ctrl + an unknown key and the thread vanished. Actually, my browser closed. Fortunately, I picked up on this one.

Here is how I meditate. http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/scientific-explanation-of-chi-kung-no-15-taoist-meditation

Chapter 14 14 1. 視之不見,名曰夷。 2. 聽之不聞,名曰希。 3. 摶之不得,名曰微。 4. 此三者不可致詰， 5. 故混而為一。 6. 其上不皦， 7. 其下不昧， 8. 繩繩不可名， 9. 復歸於無物。 10.是謂無狀之狀， 11.無物之象， 12.是謂惚恍。 13.迎之不見其首， 14.隨之不見其後。 15.執古之道以御今之有。 16.能知古始， 17.是謂道紀。 Translated in terse English... 1. View it couldn't see, name and call it Colorless. 2. Listen to it couldn't hear, name and call it Soundless. 3. Touch it couldn't feel, name and call it Formless. 4. These three objects blended in one. 5. Its top not brilliant. 6. Its bottom nor dim. 7. Its continuance unnameable. 8. Returned to being nothingness(state of invisibility), 9. Is called form of no form. 10. An image of nothingness, 11. Is called obscure. 11. Greet it cannot see its head. 13. Follow it cannot see its back. 14. Grasp the presence of Tao, 15. Driven all the present physical being 16. Able to understand the ancient origin, 17. It's called the Principles of Tao.

Impartial is not our natural state. It is something that requires intent. For example, if one wants to be a ruler or a judge, impartial is mandatory on his part to carry out justice for the people.

That's exactly, Heaven and Earth don't have any intent at all; but they are impartial though. LaoTze was using the impartial part of Heaven and Earth as a model for a sage to follow. Do you see there is a pattern in the Tao Te Ching that LaoTze always start saying something about Nature then followed with a sage....??? What he was doing is setting up a model, Nature to human, for a sage to follow. Remember... Human follows the mandate of Earth, Earth follows the mandate of Heaven, Heaven follows the mandate of Tao, Tao follow its natural self. Please keep in mind that the TTC was written in classic text, don't take a sage too literally. In the TTC, a sage does not always meant as a sage. When people was mentioned in relation with a sage, this sage was referred to as a ruler. Classic text, sometimes, does not say what it meant; and does not meant what its says. Indeed, it requires some mental manipulations to come up with a logical interpretation.

Chapter 2 Relativity 1. 天下皆知美之為美， 2. 斯惡已； 3. 皆知善之為善， 4. 斯不善已。 5. 故， 6. 有無相生， 7. 難易相成， 8. 長短相形， 9. 高下相盈， 10.音聲相和， 11.前後相隨。 12.恒也。 13.是以聖人處無為之事， 14.行不言之教。 15.萬物作焉而不辭。 16.生而不有， 17.為而不恃， 18.功成而弗居。 19.夫唯弗居， 20.是以不去。 In Terse English 1. Everyone, on earth, knows beauty as beauty, 2. Then, saw ugliness. 3. Everyone knows kindness as kindness, 4. Then, saw evil. 5. Therefore, 6. Solid and space coexisted; 7. Difficulty and easiness mutually succeeded; 8. Long and short mutually formed; 9. High and low mutually encompassed; 10.Melodies and songs mutually harmonized; 11.Front and back mutually trailed; 12.Always the same. 13.Sage handles matters in a natural manner. 14.Gives silent instructions. 15.Let things be with no interference; 16.Grow without possession. 17.Sustain without domination. 18.Success without dwelling. 19.Because of not dwelling alone, 20.Merits do not vanish.

In that case, you go find another available parking space else where. Then, you still would have a useful space....

Please let me give it a try with few lines First line... 欲修真，先去病，浑身无病方延命；若还有病不肯除，犹如瞎子跳坑井。 If you want to cultivate to the real genuine, then you must get rid of all sicknesses, Without any sickness, so one can live longer; If you do not get rid of your sickness, it seems like a blind was trying to jump into a well. Third line... 高傲心，最害事，有己无人自夸自；纵有明人在眼前，怎肯与尔露一字。 With an arrogant attitude, it ruins matters, smug with egoism; There are some wise ones before you, who was afraid to share a word with you. To be continued........

1. Heaven and Earth has no mercy; 2. They regard all things as straw dogs. 3. The Sage has no mercy; 4. He regards the common people as straw dogs. I believe that the intent here was being impartial. Heaven and Earth are being impartial to all things. When Nature strikes, it will destroy anything in its path. The sage(referred as a wise ruler) is impartial to his people so justice can be done.

小隐隐于野,大隐隐于市 I believe the correct translation is: Small retreat is in the wilderness, big retreat is in the city.

"If I were still working and had a reserved parking place and one day I went into work and someone else had parked in my place I would still have the benefit of the reserved spot but it would be totally useless to me." Again, the philosophy here was the availability of space, it was not an issue that the space was available to whom. I'm speaking in a pure philosophical sense without any personal attachment. IMO In a conclusive discussion, it should be ended at a point without an infinite loop....

"it is the empty space that is of most value. If my coffe cup is full of tea I cannot put any coffee in it. That old story about a person's cup being full. If our mind is full of opinions there is no room for a new or better opinion." The subject here is about the value of the space. In your scenario, you had the benefit of filling the cup with tea. In the first place, you want to have tea, why thinking about filling the sup with coffee. However, if you'd changed your mind, you can empty your cup and the space is available again. Why put yourself in such a dilemma to confuse the issue here...???

When we talk about intention within the definition of the Tao Te Ching, we must consider the definition of Wu Wei. The term "Wu Wei" is a patented term by LaoTze so to speak. If one taken literally, the translation is "do nothing" or "no action". However, philosophically with respect to the Tao Te Ching, by LaoTze's definition of Wu Wei: Let Nature take its course. It simply implies that do not take action interfering with Nature. Another word, if one took action against Nature, one has an intention to interrupt the course of Nature. Hence, one violates the concept of Wu Wei. What is the course of Nature...??? Nature do not have a mind of its own. Whatever it does was considered natural. For example, when lightning strikes, it does randomly with no intention to hit a particular spot. During a flood, the water will run over anything in its path to reach the lowest point. Indeed, Nature has no intention to run over what or where but it just does naturally. As far as the Tao Te Ching was concern, even though with an intention for a good cause but interfering the course of Nature. Thus it was considered not Wu Wei.

Chapter 11 1. 三十幅共一轂， 2. 當其無， 3. 有車之用。 4. 埏埴以為器， 5. 當其無， 6. 有器之用。 7. 鑿戶牖以為室， 8. 當其無， 9. 有室之用。 10.故有之以為利， 11.無之以為用。 LaoTze always use complementary therms Wu and You to illustrate his points. His definitions of these term for this chapter are: 無(Wu): empty space; none 有(You): Solid body; exist In this chapter LaoTze wants to emphasize the use of space. 1. Thirty spokes with one hub, 2. Where there is space, 3. It has the function as a carriage. Interpretation for lines 1 to 3: It is not the spokes are useful, but the the space between the hub and the wheel is. 4. Knead clay to make a utensil, 5. Where there is space, 6. It has the function as a utensil. Interpretation for lines 4 to 6: It is not the wall of the utensil is useful. but it is the space inside is. 7. Chisel a door and window, 8. Where there is space, 9. It has the function as a room. Interpretation for lines 7 to 9: It is not the door and window are useful, but it is the empty space that made the room useful. 10.Therefore, "solid" is its benefit; 11.Space is its function. Interpretation for lines 10 to 11: Therefore, something is really there is not useful, but it is really nothing there is. Again, LaoTze's philosophy is always look at the negative side to understand the positive side. In this chapter, he emphasized the space that was useful instead of the object itself. This negative-positive or yin-yang pattern was found throughout the Tao Te Ching.

In the Tao Te Ching point of view, intention relating to Wu Wei is not to interfere with Nature or being unnatural. If I tried to change your thinking, then it would be unnatural on my part with an intention to influence your thoughts without the Principles of Tao. To build a dam on a river was considered interfering with Nature because it was interrupting the flow of the river steam and the living things on the river. However, from a Taoist point of view, the only intention allowed was intended to be Wu Wei. Wu Wei means let Nature take its course without interruption. A good example for being interrupting Nature is the 100 meter long dam was built on the Yangtze River causing the worse drought, below the river, in 50 years. If LaoTze knew about this, he's probably crying in his grave.