ChiDragon

Why should I have a reason not to believe it. It is documented all over the internet. It is a very good source of reference. Why not learn something from it instead of ignoring it?

I had mention that once already.

Don't worry, you will be hearing a lot more stories like that in the future. Like I said, everybody has a different story to tell. It will become true to a beliver. Peace!

My friend, thank you for your kind words. There is one, and only one, kind of Jin. People just have different notions about it. Based on the opinions of the people and their understanding, I don't think there is a need to going on any further. I guess they had already made up their minds and no one can change. I will rest at that. At least, I have it documented. Hopefully, one day someone will understand what I was saying. Thank you very much!

Let's discuss physiology which is within your area. I love to hear your story.

Of course not, each has a different story to tell as always the case.

Focusing on sensitivity is called 懂勁，it is feeling the strength of the opponent while their hands are in contact.

There are practitioners at different levels with a limited amount of understanding. Each one has a story to tell.

Muscle strength is not necessary is fajin，rather it is fali(發力). Fajin is also using the muscles to perform by a Taiji practitioner but the li is a tremendous force that was identified as Jin.

Chen Xiaowang is performing fajin, there is no muscle strength at work?

Perhaps no one knew what it is nor what to look for. Even they found something close to it, then, they want to find a way to deny it. Since you say Jin is not muscle strength, I will close my eyes with my mind opened. On my next practice, I will lighten up my muscles just for you. Peace! ✌️

I am using firefox and it is up to date. The reason I am using it is because of the spell check function!

Someone had done the work already, and published paper on them. Why do I need to reinvent the wheel again? What is wrong with using existing known scientific facts to back up my claims. As long I am not grabbing something from thin air and threw it to justify my understanding. It is not possible that I am in violation of any scientific standards. May I ask what statistical analysis backed by experimental data did you use on your understanding. Wow! It was only a friendly suggestion. Not interested is a very scientific approach. Denying something before it was investigated. Are you saying, now, there is no need to go any further on this thread? PS No matter what, I will go to conclude what fajin is all about. Peace!

Introduction to muscle conditions with mitochondrial dysfunction. The growth of interest in mitochondrial research over the last decade is related to the knowledge that mitochondrial content and function exhibit plasticity in response to changes in metabolic energy demand. Exercise is a stimulus that is well known to induce increases in mitochondrial content within skeletal muscle. However, decrements in mitochondrial content and function can also take place, forcing muscle to derive a greater fraction of its energy from glycolysis during the stress of energy demands. Such decreases in mitochondria are readily apparent in muscle fibers subject to chronic disuse, providing evidence that muscle activity is critical to maintenance of a normal, healthy mitochondrial pool. The above explanation shows the effect of exercise between Taiji and weightlifting on the mitochondrial density. Ref: https://journals.lww.com/acsm-essr/Fulltext/2021/04000/Exercise_Is_Muscle_Mitochondrial_Medicine.1.aspx

Why do we need oxygen? You, like many other organisms, need oxygen to live. As you know if you’ve ever tried to hold your breath for too long, lack of oxygen can make you feel dizzy or even black out, and prolonged lack of oxygen can even cause death. But have you ever wondered why that’s the case, or what exactly your body does with all that oxygen? As it turns out, the reason you need oxygen is so your cells can use this molecule during oxidative phosphorylation, the final stage of cellular respiration. Oxidative phosphorylation is made up of two closely connected components: the electron transport chain and chemiosmosis. In the electron transport chain, electrons are passed from one molecule to another, and energy released in these electron transfers is used to form an electrochemical gradient. In chemiosmosis, the energy stored in the gradient is used to make ATP. So, where does oxygen fit into this picture? Oxygen sits at the end of the electron transport chain, where it accepts electrons and picks up protons to form water. If oxygen isn’t there to accept electrons (for instance, because a person is not breathing in enough oxygen), the electron transport chain will stop running, and ATP will no longer be produced by chemiosmosis. Without enough ATP, cells can’t carry out the reactions they need to function, and, after a long enough period of time, may even die. Ref: https://www.khanacademy.org/science/ap-biology/cellular-energetics/cellular-respiration-ap/a/oxidative-phosphorylation-etc#:~:text=You, like many other organisms, need oxygen Three steps of Cellular Respiration Ref: https://www.microbialfacts.com/steps-of-cellular-respiration/#:~:text=Cellular respiration plays an important role

To understand the cellular respiration will lead us to know why abdominal breathing is so important to a Taiji practitioner. Since people cannot stop mentioning about chi(氣) or energy, hopefully, cellular respiration will help us to clarify where is our muscle energy come from. Cellular respiration will be talking a lot about oxygen is because that is the main element to produce muscle energy. Ops, I meant Chi. Cellular respiration is the process by which biological fuels are oxidized in the presence of an inorganic electron acceptor, such as oxygen, to drive the bulk production of adenosine triphosphate, which contains energy. Cellular respiration may be described as a set of metabolic reactions and processes that take place in the cells of organisms to convert chemical energy from nutrients into ATP, and then release waste products. Here is a very good introduction of cellular respiration which is very educational. Ref: https://www.khanacademy.org/science/high-school-biology/hs-energy-and-transport/hs-cellular-respiration/a/hs-cellular-respiration-review

Thank you doc benway. Based on what you have given is just the translation for the traditional Chinese explanation. I believe that the paper of CP Ong wrote is just the translation of the traditional explanation. I wish he did mention something about the mitochondria. That would have a more scientific value in the explanation of Taijiquan. I do follow Chen Xiaowang, he is a master of the Chen style Taiji. I have great respect for him. However, when comes to the explanation about Taiji, he was not quite scientifically informative. On the expression about neijin, I cannot agree that muscle actions + Qi is Neijin. It is because like almost everybody else, chi was just brought out from nowhere to make a vague justification. We all know our muscles have energy by the cell respiration theory as I had indicated. Oxygen + glucose > CO2 + H2O + heat + energy(ATP) From this expression, I have no doubt, in my mind, that the energy was generated within the muscle itself. Another thing is that the Chen style Taiji is different from the Yang style. I have noticed that the Chen style seems that every other move, the muscles were contracted with a little twist. Thus that gives me the indication of fajin. I don't see other styles were doing that. Thank you very much! Ref: From CP Ong's paper

I am retired electrical/electronic engineer. At least, we have something in common. I hope we can iron out the concept of Taiji on common ground scientifically.

Let's be demystified to make it simple to comprehend. Then, we can cite some known facts to support it later. As far as I know, after the diligent practice of Taji, my muscle did not change shape or any form as in weightlifting. When I fajin my muscles have a tremendous power with abdominal breathing. After exhalation, my muscle are so relaxed as normal like nothing has happened. Muscle contraction requires energy and the energy is acquired and generated from mitochondria. At slow to moderate speed of exercise, the muscle will increase the number of mitochondria. As result, that will increase the ability for the muscle to fajin. Jin is nothing something that can be measured by some means. The Taiji practitioners can only demonstrate fajin to show that Jin is existed in the body. Jin had never defined of what it is. Jin can be only described as an explosive force exerted by a Taiji practitioner. The force is no longer exist when body is at rest. So far, we have just talked about Jin but nothing about fajin yet. The explosive force can be explained by the muscle contraction theory and cell respiration. Fajin requires all the muscles to be contracted for maximum power exertion. All parts of the body may do partial fajin. However, to be most effective, the driving factor is all on the waist to support a full execution of fajin. The muscle must be relaxed after each exertion to conserve energy. It only takes one second to exert the explosive force. There is an old Taiji saying. Stand still like a mountain and move swiftly like an ocean wave. For example, when Bruce strikes, he was so fast. The opponent doesn't even know where the strike was coming from. Bruce Lee's idea was to anticipate the enemy before one strikes.

FYI 禪(Zen) is a Budahhsm practice. Zen is not meditation, but Budahhism zazen is to practice Zen. Zen, mostly, is to find a peace of mind and seek for tranquality in life.

No, I don't think it was that serious to take muscle biopsies to prove my point. No, I did not do double-blind studies. I do not have such need for nor I am capable of doing so. I do not have the statistical data that demonstrates my hypothesis. My physical abilities is the best proof of the result from Taiji practice. I can only use the available scientific theories to support my hypothesis. I studied about the contractual effects of the muscle in lieu with cell respiration. I have discovered that there is an action potential is required for muscle contraction. Muscle contracts will activate the cell respiration to obtain its energy. That was why I went into deep study in muscle contraction and cell respiration. Indeed, it helped me to support my hypothesis to prove how Taiji works. On your own time, perhaps you might want to look ahead into the effect of muscle contraction and cell respiration before my next few posts.

In Taiji practice, the practitioner are doing the movements and breathing slowly. It is because a beginner is not used to have the new stress of being applied to muscles. One thing about moving the muscles too fast. All the energy in the body with be dissipated in no time. The muscles will become fatigue due to hypoxia. Since hypoxia is the dominant factor causing the muscles to fatigue, this condition could be prevented by providing ample of oxygen from breathing. The performance of Taji can be prevented, both, from the muscle fatigue and hypoxia. The slow movements will prevent the muscle from over stress and the breathing will prevent hypoxia. It is, mainly, the slow and deep breathing preventing the muscles from fatigue. Under the condition of hypoxia, the glucose become lactic acid or lactate that would cause muscle pain and fatigue. The reason to breathe slowly is to retain the oxygen in the lung longer. That will allow more time for the red blood cells to collect the oxygen molecules and distribute to all the cells. The mitochondria will have ample of oxygen to manufacture the ATP energy for he body needs. The slow Taiji breathing will allow the lung to have its full capacity to hold oxygen. The slowness in breathing will retain the oxygen much longer in the lung before exhalation. If exhale too fast, then the unused oxygen will exhaled also and wasted. Hence, the oxygen will continuously helping to generate the energy in supporting the muscle movements. The coordination of the breathing and movements have become a rule for the Taiji practitioners. That is having "the breathing coordinates with the movement and the movement coordinates with breathing." It should be noted that when the lung is in its full capacity to hold the breath, the diaphragm is concave downward causing the abdomen to expand fully. Under this condition, the martial arts practitioners described and known it as 氣沉丹田 (breath sunk to the dantien) aka sink chi to the dantien. 氣 means, here, is breath not energy. It was obvious when a deep breath was taken, the abdomen is expanded outward. Thus it can, only, be said that the breath is sunk to the dantien rather than energy.

Yes, that was where the original definition come from. When breathing with the abdomen fully expanded, it was considered to be that chi is sunk to the dantien. Somehow, the definition maybe misunderstood, misused, mistranslated or lost in the translation somewhere along the line. BTW it was not my opinion. The reason for the above is how people interpret the term chi(氣). Unfortunately, chi can be translated as gas, air, breath, breathing, or energy. In the case of abdominal breathing，"sink chi to the dantien", should be read or interpreted as "sink the breath to the dantien." That would become very clear breathing was to capture the oxygen from the air for cell respiration.

Using the formula, it makes easier to explain relationship between the movement and breathing in Taiji. It will lead to the understand of Jin. Let's starts with the famous quote, in martial arts, "氣沉丹田, sink chi to the dantian." The first thing in Taji is to raise both hands and bend the legs. At this instant, the muscles start using the initial amount of oxygen in the body. As soon the oxygen runs out, it will demand for more. In order to prevent hypoxia, it is wise the take a breath slowly along with the first movement. Then, exhale slowly in coordinated with the following move. The breathing procedure should be continuous throughout the practice. The right hand side of the formula tells us is like this. The energy will start to dissipate as soon as the hands raise and the legs bend. In order, to prevent hypoxia, the breathing will bring in the oxygen. So, there won't be shortage of oxygen supply for the continuous practice. With ample of oxygen brings in, the cell respiration will manufacture the ATP energy continuously. It will keep the body movements flow without hesitation. Hence, as long as the provision of oxygen is there, the muscles won't get into fatigue at anytime. In other words, if the breathing stops, then, the movement stops. If the breathing continuous, then, the movement continuous. The next post will explain how to breathe more oxygen and use it more efficiently. PS The oxygen, on the left hand side of the formula, indicates that the various amount can be obtained is determined by the breathing method.

Scenario #3 Good breathing habit. Oxygen + glucose > CO2 + H2O + heat + energy(ATP) Under Scenario #3 A person breathes well with the breath goes down deep to the chest. There is a possibility that the capacity are filled at least 70 to 80% of air. It will keep the body function well and healthy. The person only get sick once awhile but recovered very quickly. Scenario #4 Abdominal breathing, Oxygen + glucose > CO2 + H2O + heat + energy(ATP) There are lots of different names for abdominal breathing. Whatever people want to call it, it's always comes down to the famous final saying of "氣沉丹田, sink chi to the dantian." Under Scenario #4, the capacity of the lung is completely filled with air. That implies there are ample supply of oxygen for the body cells to be utilized to generate energy.