ChiDragon

The word "true" in "true person" to a Taoist is different from the ordinary definition. A "true person" is a person who has cultivated to the highest realm of the DCXM(Dual Cultivation of the Xing(mind) and Ming(body). One need to have a more understanding about the DCXM in order to grasp the meaning of the esoteric term for what a "true person" is. Unfortunately, it is meaningless to exchange idea with a little knowledge of. No offense. One's knowledge can be obtained and retained by learning. One need to unlearn what had learned before and let it go for a change. One cannot have the same attitude all the time by saying: "hey, that is not what I have learned on my side of the world." One needs to step over across to see what is really going on at the other side. One must do away with all the preconceived ideas and feelings. Hence, a Taoist might consider that is part of the cultivation of the mind.

I think that is where the "after enlightenment" comes into play.

FYI It supports the third line. 有物混成 先天地生。 寂兮寥兮(no sound, no form) 獨立不改， 周行而不殆，

Qi starts here

This is not my own translation. It is the only known and up-to-date interpretation in the present Chinese literature. I was only translated from that into English. It is the way we(the natives) believe what it was actually saying.

It can be done by self-cultivation which means self-study and self-discipline.

1. 2. Sorry, about that.....!!! When I think negatively in my mind, I always mistakenly typed positively. So, let me rephrase while respond to you at the same time. If Tao can be spoken with one word, then it is not the eternal Tao. By reverse logic: If Tao can't be spoken with one word but many words, then it is the eternal Tao. For that being said, one can see that five thousand words(characters) were used, in the TTC, chapter by chapter to describe Tao by Lao Zi. 3. I don't think it was necessarily for me to be a "Taoist in nature" to begin with and still may become a Taoist by cultivation. One can be a SOB to begin with then become a cultivated Taoist after enlightenment. Note: Enlightenment, here, means one has realized that one may become a Taoist by cultivation.

Well, of course, we are real human too. However, for us mortals, we call a Taoist a "Taoist". A highly cultivated Taoist priest would call himself as a "true person(真人)". We shouldn't take the term 真人 too literally. It means a lot more to a Taoist.

1. It would be the closest definition one will ever get. 2. Yes, if Tao can be spoken with one word, then it is the eternal Tao. 3. Well, I am not sure what that meant....?

May I ask..... If one can predict the next stage of enlightenment, is that an enlightenment.....???

In that case, you have to pay a high price for the "title" and the title only. One should donate the diploma to charity, then become a Taoist.

May I clarify...??? In the TTC, everything was said by Lao Zi, it seems to me that he had never quoted anybody. Zhonghuangzi, 中黃子, 传说中开天五老之一，又称勇猛黄老。据明末清初人徐道所著《历代神仙通鉴》 中黃子 is a fictional character

Yes, it can by your own intuition. Grok...!!! Tao was all defined in the TTC. One can become a Taoist, only, and only by cultivation.

No, please don't just browsing around. Then, it would be no fun without your contribution in the discussion.

"堇能行於丌中(he finds difficulty walking in it)" It seems to me there is a flaw in this translation for the following reasons. 1. It seems that the phrase does not contain a character for "difficulty(難)" 2. In this case, 行 doesn't means walk. Actually, it means 修行(cultivate). I would rephrase it to read: May(能) be cultivated(行於) within(丌中) diligently(堇).

Yes, different words used in the translation may twist the original intended meaning. It can be revised for everyone's satisfaction. Instead of using scholar or sage in the translation, we can use a general term as Lao Zi did. 《道德經》: 41 上士聞道，勤能行於其中； Those who have an upper level of understanding the principles of Tao, they would cultivate(修行) diligently. 中士聞道，若存若亡； Those who have a middle level of understanding the principles of Tao, it seems to be obscure to them. 下士聞道，大笑之。 Those who seem to have a lower level of understanding the principles of Tao will give a big laugh. 不笑不足以為道。 If Tao wasn't being laughed at, then, Tao wouldn't be good enough to be Tao. Annotation: After a second thought and investigation, in this chapter, "士" actually means one, someone, somebody rather than scholar or sage. I believe it would be more appropriate to use "those who.....". Lao Zi using the terms upper, middle and lower was not to be discriminate against any class of people. Rather,it was to distinguish the different level of understand of the principles of Tao.

Yes, It is so easy to claim one as a Taoist. You can still be a Taoist but not a true one. One needs to know what is a true Taoist not just a Taoist. It is not just a label. If one thinks that "Taoist" is just a label, one is long way away from Tao. There is no need to get a certificate to be Taoist. Now, a certificate is a label that you were talking about. A true Taoist is highly cultivated and not even being recognized by anybody that he was ever existed as a Taoist. So to speak.

1. An upper level scholar hears the principles of Tao, he would cultivate(修行) them diligently. The reason one cultivates the the principles of Tao is to become a Taoist. Yes, during the course of cultivation, it is very difficult to be a Taoist. 3. A lower level scholar hears the principles of Tao will give them a big laugh. The reason he laughed is because he didn't understand the principles of Tao, at all, and due to his ignorance. Edited to add: Upper level scholar may be interpreted as Teacher. Lower level may be just a student.

May I give it a try....??? 《道德經》: 41 上士聞道，勤能行於其中； An upper level scholar hears the principles of Tao, he would cultivate(修行) them diligently. 中士聞道，若存若亡； A middle level scholar hears the principles of Tao, it seems to be obscure. 下士聞道，大笑之。 A lower level scholar hears the principles of Tao will give them a big laugh. 不笑不足以為道。 If Tao wasn't being laughed at, then, Tao wouldn't be good enough to be Tao.

Even though you did not cause harm to the baby. However, you did see harm was done to the baby. Okay, you didn't violate the concept of Wu Wei but you watched harm was done to the baby. Very good. I remember there was a case in a bar somewhere in the states. A man was raping a girl on a pool table. All the guys around were watching and encouraging the incidence. Nobody had stopped it nor call the police. I heard that the spectators were arrested and charged for being Wu Wei in Taoist terms.

It's not mind baby neither but I'll save it. Based on the definition of Wu Wei. Do nothing to harm the baby. The question is the baby was being harmed. If yes, I will do something instead of nothing to be sure that the baby was not being harmed. The keyword, here, is "harm". The first priority of Wu Wei is prevent anything from being harmed. I don't how difficult is for someone to grasp this simple fundamental Taoist concept.

72 hours? That's too long....

You mean: "Drown, baby drown!" I see! So, after all this talk! You still haven't updated your concept about Wu Wei. PS.... Sigh...!!! So, not saving the baby is very Taoist Taoish to you. The concept of non interference is more significant than saving a human life. I must say you are a real Taoist, MH.

To me, again. A Taoist should be fully understand the principle of Wu Wei, without any doubt, before anything else to begin with.

Let's go back to the baby was being drown on the river. Under the famous Taoist principle of Wu Wei, should the baby be saved....??? Why or why not....???