ChiDragon

Chapter 1 The introduction of Tao 1. 道可道，非常道。 2. 名可名，非常名。 3. 無，名天地之始。 4. 有，名萬物之母。 5. 故常無，欲以觀其妙。 6. 常有，欲以觀其徼。 7. 此兩者同出而異名， 8. 同謂之玄。玄之又玄， 9. 眾妙之門。 Revised as of 2-27-12 / 9-28-23 1. Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao. 2. A name that can be named is not an eternal name. 3. Invisible, was a name given to Tao at the origin of sky and earth. 4. Visible, was a name given to Tao as the mother of all things. 5. Hence, when Tao is always invisible, one would grok its quale. 6. When Tao is always visible, one would observe its boundary. 7. These two come from one origin but differ in name, 8. Both are regarded as unfathomable, the most occult and profound; 9. The gate of all changes.

It wasn't a challenge. Loatze was only suggesting how to observe Tao objectively. Special note: We must observe the rule of Wu Wei. Loatze advocated everything to be conducted objectively. It is the principle of TTC.

Thank you for your thought! Good idea, but Tao is observable at this time, therefore there is no need to grok now.

Okay! I respect your thinking. How about for those who do not the desire but still see the mystery? Therefore, with or without desire, one will still see the mystery anyway.

Yes! You may appreciate this translation. However, the logic does hold here in describing the presence of Tao. Whose desire? Desire for what? Do we need a great deal of desire to see the mystery of what?

3. 無，名天地之始。 4. 有，名萬物之母。 5. 故常無，欲以觀其妙。 6. 常有，欲以觀其徼。 3. Invisible, was a name given to Tao at the origin of sky and earth.4. Visible, was a name given to Tao as the mother of all things.5. Hence, when Tao is always invisible, one would grok its quale.6. When Tao is always visible, one would observe its boundary. Actually, line 3 and 4, '有' and '無' was treated as a noun. Most Chinese characters have a sound and meaning. Laotze was killing two birds with one stone. The these two characters was used to name Tao. It also with an implication of what state that Tao was in. Lines 5 and 6 '有' and '無' as adjectives. 常無: always not there, it didn't imply it doesn't exist. 常有: always there

Thank you for your attention. Let's me try another example.

Don't you think that the TTC is what it is?

I would like to hear from you. How you rephrase these two lines and include Tao in your thought? 5. Hence, when Tao is always invisible, one would grok its quale.6. When Tao is always visible, one would observe its boundary.

Oh, yes. Especially in classic. For example: Chapter 71 1. 知不知, 2. 尚矣； 3. 不知知， 4. 病也。 5. 聖人不病， 6. 以其病病。 7. 夫唯病病， 8. 是以不病。 1. One who knows what he doesn't know. 2. Is the best. 3. One who doesn't know but thinks he knows. 4. It's a sickness. 5. A wise man has no sickness. 6. He treated sickness as a sickness. 7. Because he knows his sickness as a sickness. 8. Hence, he has no sickness.

In terse English: 1. A thing was formed. I think this is the best fit for the translation. It is also in the Chinese classic format. Besides, Tao was not formed by chaos.

Never mind. Go do your thing.

That is what it says: Orbiting but not stopping implicating it is eternal.

means blend

I revised see if it make any sense to you.

Yes, line 1 did has an implication of that. Chapter 25 Invisible Tao 1. 有物混成 1. Tao was formed with things blended together.(is) 1. There was a thing formed by chaos; (was)

Haha...That was meant for you!

Yes, I know exactly what you meant. It is better to go to the capitol to do the Big Bang.

How about this one? Let's do it without 'chaos'.

For non-natives or natives too. perhaps.

Yes, I need to do a lot of rebuttals.

I didn't choose the word 'chaos'. It was just a copycat thing. Big bang was by an explosion of an atom. Laotze said Tao is formed by something spinning until it comes into shape. At the time of my translation, I didn't like the word 'chaos' was used. My English wasn't that good at the time. Perhaps, we could work together on this one to come up with something better!

Isn't a glass made with glass?

It has to fit the meaning of the whole message, other than the characters.