ChiDragon

Chapter 8 - Be Virtuous like Water

Translation in terse English:

1. High virtue like water.

2. Water is good at benefiting all things without contend.

3. Attend places where people disgusted.

4. Hence, water is similar to Tao.

5. Dwell in good selectable places,

6. Good deep in the heart with peace and kind to others,

7. Spoken words with trust,

8. Rule with benevolence,

9. Conduct affairs with best ability,

10.Take action in a timely manner,

11.Therefore, only by not contending,

12.Thus no resentment.

1. 上善若水。

2. 水善利萬物而不爭，

3. 處眾人之所惡，

4. 故幾於道。

5. 居善地，

6. 心善淵與善仁，

7. 言善信，

8. 正善治，

9. 事善能，

10.動善時。

11.夫唯不爭，

12.故無尤。

 

Daybreaks, the still. Ness.

Lochness. Lakes and rivers flow.

Creatures dis. Covered.

Creatures discovered

Insects, poultry, and mammals

Vitalized Nature

Hehehe. You guys are great!!!

 

(I'm glad I don't read Chinese and therefore cannot get involved in these discussions.)

 

Tao permeates all things because all things are Tao.

 

Wei Wu Wei.

You don't read Chinese, not just Chinese but Classic Chinese. There is a nuance. One cannot interpret the classic text just with some basic knowledge of modern Chinese. The classic text was dominated by metaphorical thoughts. It must be interpreted by inductive and deductive reasoning with a good historical insight and cultural background. However, I don't know how you managed to grasp more than those who knew some Chinese.

"為無為(Wei Wu Wei)"

It was because you'd said that; the show must be kept going.

If one study the Tao Te Ching long enough, one should know by now, LoaTze had a special pattern in handling his style in writing. He loves to say things in a negative sense. He loves to use the negative character 無(wu3) to reverse the logic of a positive description. As you said, "Loatze is the master of paradox".

Let's go over these three negative terms below.

1. 無 有(Wu3 you2): don't have; not have; not exist

2. 無 間(Wu3 Jian1): no space in between

3. 無 為(Wu3 Wei): being natural(by LaoTze's definition).

1. 無 有 the closest direct translation is "don't have" or "not have". If something that we don't have, then it is not visible to us but it may be still existed in the world. However, if we say something that the world doesn't have, then that something does not exist. In the classic text, 無 有 was a term used to imply something that doesn't exist. By LaoTze's definition, he doesn't mean that something doesn't exist, rather he meant something that exists but invisible.

2. 無 間(Wu3 Jian1): no space in between

無(Wu3): not; none. The character doesn't say "not exist" directly but only implies "not exist".

間(Jian1); space in between

Therefore, by saying 無 間(Wu3 Jian1) means no space in between; no gap; no crack; no split; no opening; no space by logic. If there is no gap, by inductive reasoning, something has to be solid.

Let's try all the possible translation for:

無有入無間

Non-logical translations:

1. Something that does not exist enters the no gap or whatever.

2. Something that we don't have enters the no crack.

Logical translation:

3. Something that is invisible enters the no space in between.

Terse English...

4. Invisible enters no gap.

5. Invisible enters something solid.

6. Invisible enters non-space.

Sometimes, there is no direct translation form one language to another. The only thing one can do is to translate it as close as possible, even though it may sound awkward. However, as long the logic was there to carry its meaning, then it was understood. That's all it matters.

Guess what is really the formless and the extreme softness...???

Can anybody deny that Wu Wei is not formless and the extreme softness in the world....???

PS...

I'm saving this for last....

Im pretty sure that's perspective. There are successful Masters, and im sure between one and the other their answer for what chi kung is "all about" would be different.

 

Or atleast for all of them wouldn't be the Same.

 

Neichuan

In your own words, what is Chi Kung....??? Do you see any commonality among all of the different methods...???

(無有入無間).

LaoTze like to use the term 無(Wu3)

無有: Not have: LaoTze means the "Invisible Tao" again.

無間: Non-space. What is the opposite of non-space...??? It is a solid body. Thus LaoTze likes to make everything sound paradoxical.

無有入無間:

What is really he was saying:

The invisible Tao can enter into any solid body to illustrate his point about the first two lines.

1. The extreme softness in the world.

2. Manipulates the extreme hardness of the world.

3. Formless enters non-space.

The extreme softness is the formless Tao. Tao is omnipresent.

Sorry to disappoint you.

If this is your main goal right now, you've already started with the wrong foot.

Any form of Chi Kung will get you there. Only and only if you are determined to get there by practicing. First, you must know what Chi Kung is all about.

Receive the blessing

Birds sing on the willow tree

Given liveliness

Is dan-tien like a muscle tissue that we can grow it...???

1. Interesting. Did you know that Hinduism - Vedanta - Kashmir Shaivism - Sufism - Judaism and Christianity all have enlightened beings they are called realized beings- sometimes saints.

 

2. If one is dealing with intellectual matters one can argue back and forth, back and forth, back and forth,

with such ideas as enlightenment being assigned to a particular religion or philosophy.

One can be atheist, agnostic and be an enlightened being.

1. No, I didn't know they were; and I don't think they were neither.

2. Yes, I'm an atheist and dealing with intellectual matters here in a discussion forum. I hope that I am doing the right thing.....

What i understand from tao - yin yang - once one reaches a peak it's all downhill from there

Yes, you understand correctly. However, enlightenment is a Buddhist philosophy. The Yin-Yang concept does not apply here.

Maybe, however speaking from inexperience, from my understanding of how this world works, nothing is static.

So perhaps one becomes enlightened and the experience gets deeper as we grow.

For example, and perhaps a bad one but the best i can manage at this time, would be playing tai chi.

Even when one is a master, he/she continues to go deeper levels of understanding and continues to "improve"

There is not static place where one knows it all about anything - it is a process.

So i think enlightenment, peeling away ego is a process, life is a process.

Yes, a process is not a level of enlightenment but it was only helping to approach enlightenment. When someone was attained to the state of enlightenment, then there was noting to be looking forward to because one is already there at the peak.

Nature has no purpose because it is natural with the balance of the Yin and Yang. As far as the Tao Te Ching was concern, Heaven, Earth, Human, and Tao are four separate entities. Human was caught in between Heaven, earth and Tao. According to LaoTze, human is not part of Nature because human has to cope with Nature all the time by following the principles of Heaven, Earth, and Tao. Human are straw dogs as LaoTze putted.

All animals are part of Nature because their physical protection are provide by Nature from adverse weather conditions but humans are not. Human has to deal with animals to survive. Thus that was considered to be dealing with Nature in a philosophical sense which isolates human from Nature. From the Nature's point of view, Nature has no purpose. However, from the human's point of view, the purpose of Nature is for the survival of human.

Can anyone here determine their own level of enlightenment? If so do tell

How may levels are there in enlightenment...??? It seems to me there is only one level. It is either that one was enlightened or not.

As per my original post - I started with zazen (which includes breathwork)but moved on to a style which was an offshoot of TM (mantra/transcending). I've been doing the latter for approximately 5 years. It met my goals initially but has since caused spaciness and other negative symptoms. Thanks for the link.

You welcome. Let's concentrate on your breathing. When you breathe, how far did your breath go down inside you...??? Another word, your breath reached your throat, chest or abdomen...???

Can you be more elaborate on what do you mean by "caused spaciness and other negative symptoms"...??? Thank you.

Chapter 43 - The Benefit of Wu Wei

Translation in terse English:

1. The extreme softness in the world.

2. Manipulates the extreme hardness of the world.

3. Formless enters non-space.

4. Because of that, I know the benefit of Wu Wei

5. Teaching without words

6. The benefit of Wu Wei.

7. There is no comparison with it in the world.

Classic text with pinyin

1. 天 下 之 至 柔 ，

1. tian1 xia4 zhi1 zhi4 rou2,

2. 馳 騁 天 下 之 至 堅 。

2. chi2 cheng3 tian1 xia4 zhi1 zhi4 jian1.

3. 無 有 入 無 間 ，

3. wu2 you3 ru4 wu2 jian1,

4. 吾 是 以 知 無 為 之 有 益 。

4. wu3 shi4 yi3 zhi1 wu2 wei2 zhi1 you3 yi4.

5. 不 言 之 教 ，

5. bu4 yan2 zhi1 jiao4,

6. 無 為 之 益

6. wu2 wei2 zhi1 yi4,

7. 天 下 希 及 之 。

7. tian1 xia4 xi1 ji2 zhi1.

ChiDragon.

 

No offense was meant.

I merely meant that perhaps English is your second language.

I myself only have one, so if you speak/write more than one, I admire you.

 

I would enjoy your participation, and would feel better

if we could work this out together without bad feelings.

We all have much to learn from one another.

 

I apologize if I offended you.

 

Please continue the Haiku.

 

Peace!

strawdog65...

No offense. I am just used to the one syllable characters. You see, any sound is a syllable to me. It would be too difficult for me to deal will the Kaiku. Anyway, thank you for your basic understanding....

"Maybe it's a language issue?"

Yes, it is.

Sorry, I'll no longer participate in the Hiaku Chain.

5 syllables

7 syllables

5 syllables

5-7-5

Paradoxical,

LaoTze writing style,

Specious.

Par a dox i cal = 5

Lao Tze writ ing s ty le = 7

s pe ci ou s = 5

I'm not sure what you are doing.

This is not 5-7-5 or any other rhythm I'm used to.

I'm not sure what it is, or what you want people to do with it.

 

Could we please get back to 5-7-5 or some other rhythm?

Go back to the #1 post of this thread and let me know if I interpreted incorrectly.

You may post there now after your first post here....

It didn't say that. I'm curious to find out what happens after the 7th day...

1. a clear peak of serum testosterone appeared, reaching 145.7% of the baseline ( P < 0.01). No regular fluctuation was observed following continuous abstinence after the peak.

2. Ejaculation is the precondition and beginning of the special periodic serum testosterone level variations, which would not occur without ejaculation.

What is that saying to you....???

It seems to me that "No regular fluctuation was observed" are the keywords:

"No regular fluctuation was observed following continuous abstinence after the peak." AND "which would not occur without ejaculation."

IS saying

It stays at the 145.7% level until the next ejaculation, then the cycle repeats again.

Paradoxical,

LaoTze writing style,

Specious.

Is this study saying that the level stays at 145.7%, or that it's just a fluctuation and then it goes back down to the beginning as of the 8th day?

I think you missed the point. It stays at the 145.7% level until the next ejaculation, then the cycle repeats again.

"that the effective time of an ejaculation is 7 days minimum"

"Minimum" means it takes at least 7 days to rejuvenate back to the normal serum testosterone level from the day of ejaculation.

lol so what about 100 days during a period of "laying the foundation" with chi kung neigong meditations etc ? they haven't gone that far in the studies...

If I understand your question correctly, a Chi Kung practitioner will reach the serum testosterone level quicker than 7 days. It because Chi Kung will increase the cell respiration process faster than an ordinary person.