ChiDragon

Wei Qi field. Depends what one wants to do with it. If you let it collapse to the body they you can at least approach the body.

You know quite a bit of the terms in the TCM. And people do borrow them to describe Chi Kung.

Here its definition in the TCM　explanation section of my acupuncture book.

衛氣(Wei Qi): It was from the food essence that we eat. It functions to protect the muscular surface, defend the body against exogenous pathogenic factors is its principle function, hence its name is 衛氣(Wei Qi), the protective field or shield..... In Chi Kung, it could be meant the "protective shield".

Good thing that you had mentioned: " If you let it collapse to the body they you can at least approach the body." I want to hear it from your understanding. Before it collapse, do you know how it was generated...??? I mean what one has to do to the body, in order, to produce the 衛氣(Wei Qi).

1. mmmk, so what if the hands are a foot and a half (18 inches) apart and the sensation is still there? still heat?

 

2. I'm talking about a twitch that appears to be more nerve than muscle, located in a spot that is not under muscular strain. I've read some of Bruce's other books and I had come to call these types of phenomena "blockages" since that is the termonology he uses.

 

3. Sounds good. So what is the fastest (or most efficient) way to build chi, in your experience/opinion?

1. Yes, IMO, it is still the heat energy generated by the body, but it was only in a greater magnitude. It depends on how long or what level of the art has been practiced.

2. I don't know what kind of experience you have in Chi Kung or Kung Fu. Do you practice them at all? You sounded like that you have not. After a long time of practice, your muscles will be able to withstand more stresses than before. Would this contradict what you had read from Bruce's book...???

3. There is no fastest way to build Chi; but there is a most efficient way. I had said it before and I'll say it again. Practice, practice and practice.

Let's me ask you this, what have you been observed the most common things that the Chi Kung practitioners do in their practice...???

Have you ever touched someone's mid-area who has fully developed Iron Shirt?

 

I have. It feels like a stone wall, it's not muscle. Even on the sides where normally it is more hallow feeling, and throughout the ribs. And I am talking about a guy how has no muscle tone at all; relaxed it is slightly more flabby.

 

I am not justifying what this guy in the video has or does not have but of course if someone has not experienced this they might just talk it away as muscle flexing.

I am not as lucky as you are. No, I have not touch a guy with iron shirt. I only understand or had been told that you cannot even get close to the guy with iron shirt within some distance like three to five feet away. You might feel that there is an invisible wall was surrounded him.

I wonder have you really notice how the monk, in the video, had his muscles tensed up....??? I was just talk it away as muscle flexing by my observation of the thing that was presented to me without any unrelated outside sources.

IMO The monk in the video did not perform Iron Shirt, it seems to me he was only doing an ordinary Chi King Demo in resisting a great impact of force.

1. So, if, you're doing a standing meditation and you feel a sort of magnetic sensation between your hands, that is breathing chi?

 

2. If you are standing and slowly moving your hands over various parts of your body (like the arms and legs f'instance) and you feel muscle tremors in the part of the arm/leg, that that is organ chi?

 

 

3. Are those the types of things he's talking about?

1. First of all, if one don't breathe, one will die. The magnetic sensation between your hands are the heat which generated by your body. If you put two hands together one inch apart, then you have the heats from both hands added. The magnetic sensation was the summation of the heats from the two hands.

2. You muscle tremors was because you are an novice. The muscles of a novice were not used to having the new stresses applied the legs and arms. Those are not the organ chi. As I mentioned before, the definition of organ chi is the function activities of the organ.

3. I don't know what are the types of things that he was talking about. I will not assume that I know what he's talking about. Also, I will not assume that he knows what he was talking about neither. I can only talk about what I'd already learned with some basic understanding.

Yes, I had seen this video before. Have you notice how the demonstrator holds his breath and contract his muscles. Despite to his claim that his Chi was concentrated on the surface of the skin in the front muscles. Here is what I believe: when the Chi was held in the dan tian, it was like a balloon or a car tire which act as a cushion; and the contraction of the muscles which are hardened to withstand the big impact.

Form now on, if you see any Chi Kung demonstration, the first thing you should observe are his breathing and muscles. If you are a practitioner of Chi Kung, have you noticed that your muscles had been developed more hardened or better muscle tone than before...???

Over forty years as a teacher and practitioner has demonstrated to me that

the two most direct methods to building chi are either:

 

(1) to use acupuncture meridian qigong, or

(2) to hold specific standing postures.

Acupuncture meridian line qigong5 involves doing something to the outside

of your body (the etheric body) such as moving your hands on specific

energy lines to trigger feelings inside.

Although meridian line qigong can enable you to get a faster initial feeling

of chi, it is a slower way to build power.

IMO Most people are so confused with the definition of "Chi". There is a fallacy in lines a and 2. Lines 1 and 2 are mixing apples and oranges. The Chi in line 1 was referring to the functional activities of the organs; and the Chi in line 2 was referring to the Chi in breathing. Holding a specific standing postures only change the formation of the leg muscles. Without breathing, one will not receive any Chi at all.

If one wants to know about Chi, one needs to know the distinction of all the definitions of "Chi" and be sure one knew which Chi that he was talking about.

Edited to add:

BTW There is no way to achieve what the title says. It has to be done be practice after practice of one individual.

May I ask:

Who wants to have the Status of Emptiness...???

What is the ultimate goal to obtain the Status of Emptiness...???

Anyone has an answer to these questions.???

dawei...

Thanks for your advice: not to respond..... :D

Really...............???

..............

Perhaps it is a good thing that I do not read Chinese. I would likely worry myself into a fit trying to find the 'best' words to use to translate with.

Yes, you lucky son of a gun.

How about the word "hollow"....???

I think "empty" is the closest word.

Henricks' translation of that has four lines:

 

1. The space between heaven and earth --

2 Is it not like a bellows?

3 Though it is empty it does not collapse;

4 When put into motion it sends forth all the more.

 

And here once again we see the word "empty". But is it really empty? Or is it full of potential?

1. The space between heaven and earth -- perhaps, it was considered to be vacuous. Is that different from "empty"...???

That's basically what I am saying... the reason I don't like "take over the world" is because I see the phrase as "to unify" and that takes a lot more than just "take over" a piece of land from a few states... It's a long term exhortation. Why else the list?

 

But this is going nowhere since my point is not coming across.

It is not a matter of what we like it or not; but that was what the text says. Even though it says take over the world, but actually the implication was to rule the world at the end. So, what difference does it make...?? Why should we be taken it so serious...?? Let's stop this kind of persnickety argument now and in the near future as well.

This Chapter was only making suggestions how to run things. When someone took over the world should rule with Wu Wei. It wasn't saying that do not take over the world because of Wu Wei.

I think you are adding too much into line 3. There is no Wu Wei involvement here.

1. Okay, well specifically, for one thing, I don't understand why Taiji practice would have to be at the highest level to be considered qigong. After all, anyone with no experience at all can practice a qigong form like the 5 Animal Frolics or 8 Pieces of Brocade and that is qigong, right? So why would a Taiji practitioner have to have reached the highest level for his practice to be considered qigong? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

2. Also, I have never heard the terms Tai Chi Kung or Taiji Qigong before and I was wondering where you were getting them, and if there was a book or something I could look it up in to get more information.

 

3. The Yin stage/Yang stage thing makes sense to me although I've never heard it explained in exactly those terms.

 

4. Also, I'm not sure about your statement that one needs to be at the Yang Stage and have "jin" to do pushing hands. I practice pushing hands, and I do not think I am at the stage you are talking about. I can barely touch some of the students in my class, while others I can beat easily. I think jin may be relative, not like you either have it or you don't. Also, there's not only one jin, there are many. For example in pushing hands I use ting jin, listening power, which I have developed at least to some extent, and that is a big part of what allows me to beat newer students.

Very good, I am glad that you are asking this kind of questions. If I can explain it, then, I will understand more of it myself.

To answer your questions:

1. Let's say before you practice Tai Ji Quan, you just have a normal body with regular body strength. What will the practice of Tai Ji do to your body...??? It will build up your muscle tone by the slow movements, it helps you to breathe better, it makes you a stronger person, and it builds up your reflexes. The practitioner must practice day by day in order to transform the body to incorporate these features. Now, you only have a Tai Chi body because the Jin had been built in your muscles from the long practice. However, this is only the first milestone.

As a noice, you were practicing with relaxation. To make to story short, I just skip to the Qigong part. In order to have the Jin to be stronger, the second level is to do fast Tai Ji. At this level, you just do the movements a lot faster and the distance of the movement are shorter. When you do that, your muscles are automatically contracted without you being even aware of it. Again, the Jin are also being built in the muscles to be much stronger.

At the third level, now you do your Tai Ji at a speed that you are comfortable with. It should be faster than the beginning level with your muscles contracted, intentionally, and breathe deeply. When you do that, it was considered to be the Tai Ji Gong. Normally, Tai Ji Gong was not mentioned in the west, that's why you never heard of it before. Only the ones that are very serious about learning it, I think your teacher may be considered teaching it to you if you ask.

2. I have already answered in 1.

3. Those are only my understanding and thoughts and I think it was easier to transmit them to you that way. Actually, I wanted to draw your attention to the Yin-Yang concept. There is a lot to tell. Let's go slow on that. I'll explain that to you along with some other questions, in case, that you might have later.

4. The question about Jin. Normally, you have your own body strength. Some of the people are stronger than the others. Practicing Tai Ji will convert your body strength into Jin; it can make it much more powerful than your normal strength when you reach the Tai Ji Gong level as I'd mentioned in 1. Then, you are considered to be at the highest level of Tai Ji.

You've mentioned that you can easily beat some others, it was because your normal body strength was strong than them and vice versa. If you have Jin, you can beat someone that has the same strength as you do. This has something to do with Ting Jin(聽勁), listening to other's Jin. I think I know what it is, but I want to confirm it before I get back to you on this. In the meantime, don't read too much into the things that you might not know too much about and get confuse.

Edited to add:

聽勁(Ting Jin) - 通過練太極拳架及推手培養出來的周身感覺

Here is the Chinese definition of 聽勁(Ting Jin):

It was the holistic sensation of the body which cultivated from Tai Ji Quan stance and pushing hand.

It means use the whole body to feel the strength of the counterpart. In order to do so, you must have Jin in your body for that purpose. The Jin in the body will increase your sensitivity.

Chapter 57

1. Use basic principles to rule a country.

2. Use tactics to run a warfare.

3. Use non-violence to take over the world(China).

4. How do I know this can be done...???

5. From the list below.

6. To run a country, the more restrictions, the poorer the people.

7. People with more sharp instruments, the country is more chaotic.

8. People with more dexterity, crimes are occurring more often.

9. The more regulations, the number of thieves and robbers is continuously risen.

10. Therefore, a virtuous ruler says.

11. I'm being Wu Wei, then the people will be self developed.

12. I'm being silent, then the people will be on the track.

13. I'm not being interfering, then the people will be rich.

14. I'm not being covetous, then the people will be guileless.

57

1. 以正治國，

2. 以奇用兵，

3. 以無事取天下。

4. 吾何以知其然哉﹖

5. 以此。

6. 天下多忌諱而民彌貧。

7. 民多利器國家滋昏。

8. 人多伎巧奇物泫起。

9. 法令滋彰盜賊多有。

10.故聖人云

11.我無為而民自化。

12.我好靜而民自正。

13.我無事而民自富。

14.我無欲而民自樸。

I think this is the way to understand line 3. To acquire or obtain unification of all of the States.

dawei...

You are 100% correct. One person unified six states, so tian xia was under one ruler. However, the unification was only a process to unite the six states; but the final result was taken over the whole China.

Line 3 was only a general statement for one to take over tian xia, China or the six states. Whatever you want to call it; it was just saying taken over a piece of land. Indeed, it did not specify why it was taken over the land but just taken over.

Besides, 取天下(taken over Tian Xia) is different from 得天下(gained Tian Xia).

得天下(gained Tian Xia) literally means that one benevolent state was jointed be other states in a peaceful manner. Also, it could have the meaning of winning the hearts of all the people.

Muscles should be not be tensed in practice and the use of overt muscular force should be avoided. Are these not the standard basic principles of internal martial arts training?

This is only true at the novice level. At higher level, the muscles must be contracted in order to Fa Jin. IMO People are so used to the basic principle of loosen up the muscles at the beginning of their lessens. However, nobody had ever mentioned to them that they will have better muscle tone after a long time practice. Then, they can tense up with their muscles to Fa Jin. You can up any physiological book, it will tell you that the muscles have to be contracted in order to exert a force.

My question has always been, "Why would a Taoist want to take over the world?"

It was not a Taoist wants to take over the world. I thought you understood that the Tao Te Ching was about rulers.

I think I had mentioned this before, Tian xia(天下) means China in the ancient time.

Tian xia(天下): Under heaven; the world; China

3. 以無事取天下。

3. Use non-violence to take over China.

Line 3 was referring to anybody whoever wants to run China.

Note:

The ancient Chinese only known to them that China was the whole wide world. So when they say under heaven(天下), actually, they meant China.

ChiDragon, it sounds like you might know more about Taijiquan than I do... can you cite a source for the information in your last post, like what teacher or book you learned it from?

Hi, Pu-erh

You see, all my sources are from the books written, in my native language, by the past Tai Chi masters. I had learned from the theories in these books and based on my empirical experience. However, if you have any unresolved questions, I am glad to answer you with the best of my knowledge right here in the forum....

I suppose my question is a pretty simple and direct one. I just hope that I posted in the correct forum.

 

1. Here in southern KY the weather has been very very hot. Heat index near one hundred F at night. My point being is that I have noticed my sweating patterns.

 

2. If I do my baguazhang, the combat side, which I suppose is more yang than the dancing play of the form, my sweating is different than if I do pure qigong.

 

3. My bagua sweating starts very quickly and it seems to just bead and collect. My qigong sweat seems to be thinner and seems to increase when I seal my energy after i am done. This sweat is very thin and runs down my brow and soaks my entire body.

:ph34r:

4. Can anyone give me any insight on this? Is my qigong too yin or bagwa too yang? ...or is this as things should be?

 

5. Also, how important is wiping off the sweat one accumulates after qigong? How long is too long to leave it on? Does it matter?

Yes, you have posted at the right forum... To answer your question simple and direct, here they are:

1. Its natural for your body to sweat at that temperature.

2. Ba Gua Zhuang requires you to move a lot, thus it makes you sweat more.

3. You start to sweat very quickly was because your body generates more heat plus the external heat. It's only natural for your body to sweat to cool down your body quickly. The movement in Ba Gua Zhang is faster, that's why you sweat more and faster. While Qigong is slower, then your sweat was thinner and slower.

4. Gigong was considered a Yin attribute and Ba Gua Zhuang is Yang as they should be.

5. You should wipe off the sweat ASAP. If it doesn't bother you, then it doesn't matter but it's still bad for you though....

Chapter 57

1. Use basic principles to rule a country.

2. Use tactics to run an army.

3. Use non-violence to take over the world(China).

4. How do I know this can be done...???

5. From the list below.

57

1. 以正治國，

2. 以奇用兵，

3. 以無事取天下。

4. 吾何以知其然哉﹖

5. 以此。

To be continued....

Dinner time with tea....