ChiDragon

Chapter 1

1. 道可道，非常道。

2. 名可名，非常名。

3. 無,名天地之始。

4. 有,名萬物之母。

5. 故常無,欲以觀其妙。

6. 常有,欲以觀其徼。

7. 此兩者同出而異名，

8. 同謂之玄。玄之又玄，

9. 眾妙之門。

1. Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao.

2. A name that can be named is not an eternal name.

3. Invisible was the name given to Tao at the origin of heaven and earth.

4. Visible was the name given to Tao as the mother of all things.

5. Hence, when Tao is always invisible, one would grok its quale.

6. When Tao is always visible, one would observe its boundary.

7. These two come from one origin but differ in name,

8. Both are regarded as fathomless; the most mysterious of the mysterious;

9. The gate of all changes.

Here is the direct translation from the classic text of Chapter 1. I will go over line by line with annotations why they are translated this way.

PS...

Line 1 has been done already in the above post.

I wouldnt say thats a 100% true it was kind o like folklore back then like knowledge of the sages. Im sure they didnt have taichi back then but i am sure that they had some form of moving meditation.

To me, moving meditation is Chi Kung with slow movements; but I don't know how the term "moving meditation" was evolved.

Meditation does help to heal a damaged tissue quicker but not in one day. However, it does not help tissues, like boobs, to grow bigger for sure.

What is enlightenment?

 

It's a nice idea, concept or thought.

 

Ultimately none of this can be spoken about or defined. Language is all about breaking down reality into bits and pieces. Therefor, language is by nature dualistic and speaking about non-dualism is essentially not possible. That's when paradoxes start to come up. Language can give some pretty good pointers to the truth, but only pointers.

BTW Enlightenment is only by intuition with the wisdom of the enlightened one.

Is it fair to say that one can be enlightened without spoken or defined but by grokking...???

There was no indication in the past that LaoTze does Chi Kung or not. Tai Chi was not developed in his time. At LaoTze's time, there was no Taoist religion yet. The religion came after the Tao Te Ching was written. Then, people start interpreting the Tao Te Ching in anyway as they wanted to fit their own needs.

Chapter 1

1. 道 可道，非 常道。

1. Dao4 ke3 dao4, fei1 chang2 Dao4;

The first and third 道(dao4) is Tao itself as a proper noun.

The second 道(dao4) is because with 可(ke3) in front of it as 可道(ke3 dao4) which made 道(dao4) as a verb.

Here is the breakdown

1. 道(Dao4): Tao

2. 可道(ke3 dao4): able to speak; speakable; can be spoken

3. 非(fei1): not

4. 常(chang2): eternal, always; forever

5. 道(Dao4: Tao

Hence, the final translation for line 1 would be:

1. 道可道，非常道。

1. Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao.

Edited to add:

1. 道可道，非恒道。

The original character 恒(heng2) was in line 1.

恒(heng2) and 常(chang2) both have the identical meaning as defined above.

Some place along the line 恒(heng2) was replaced with 常(chang2). It is because 恒(heng2) was the name of a king in the Han dynasty. It was forbidden to have the name of a king in any document at the time.

Hi there,

 

in your opinion, what is the best way to establish a valid coonection between Method and Effect.

It is said that if the Effect is sought and expected, the Mind will create a False effect, as a result of expectations, therefore impending the true Effect of the method to manifest on its own accord.

If this is true, then most of the methods that exist on the spiritual market fall into this category.

 

This isn't a matter of criticizing what others choose to do, but an honest quest for the answer to this question: If we wouldn't have know the intended effects of the practices we got involved into... what would they have resulted into??

 

It seems that there are two ways of practicing, regarding Daoism:

one is called 大道Da Dao - the Great Dao

the other is called 旁门Pang men - the side door [to the Dao]

This is a question adressed to those that are into the Da Dao practices: why is it considered improper to be entering Dao through Pang men?

 

Thanks!

 

L1

I know the language pretty well and know exactly what you are asking.

By 大道Da Dao - the Great Dao, actually it should be said:

1. 正道(zheng4 Dao) - the correct way.

2. 旁门Pang men(the side door) - the incorrect way(implication).

Item 1 is self explanatory.

Item 2: In the Chinese thinking, it means that anything was not taken the right approach was considered to be going through the side door. Another words, if one tries to speed up a process by going about doing it the wrong way or do something illegal to get to the final result. Indeed, these steps were done improperly were considered to be taken the side door to get there.

ChiDragon, do you think if Lao Tzu was writing (or dictating) the Tao in China today he would say the same things the same way?

Yes, I would think so. LaoTze's philosophy was so idealistic but too impractical to be carried out. The Tao Te Ching is a piece of stand alone document. So far, no one has the wisdom as same as LaoTze to come up with such a document. Even ZhuangTze, had to borrow his idea about Tao to come up with his own philosophy.

Please take this as a constructive argument, not an attack.

No, I would think of it as such. I am so glad that you presented this constructive argument.

Laozi is a corpse - long dead, if he ever lived. He is an image in our minds.

We created him.

Most modern scholars would argued that Laozi does not, in fact, refer to any single, historical individual.

And if there was, the first line of his writings says - whatever we try to write about the Dao is NOT the Dao...

So if you really listen to what Laozi says, you should close the book after reading the first line!

 

So why look for authority in a book?

Why not look in ourselves?

At this point in time, it is not a concern of who LaoTze was. The Tao Te Ching was written in black and white. It is what it is says rather than what we think what it says. The first line says - whatever we try to write about the Dao is NOT the ETERNAL Dao rather than is NOT the Dao. I see that there was a big fallacy already.

So if you really listen to what Laozi says, you should close the book after reading the first line!

It seems to me that nobody closed the book after the reading the first line. Everybody had read further; and assumed what they think LaoTze was saying instead of what LaoTze has to say. Of course, there are native scholars with historical and cultural background helping them to have a succinct interpretation of the classic Tao Te Ching. Of course, nobody cares what the native scholars had to say neither.

Enlightenment.

 

Realization of being more than our worldly bounds.

 

Acknowledgment that we "see" ourselves as individuals,

when in fact we exist connected to everything else...

and that there is no actual separateness.

 

Once we fully know this... how can we not be enlightened?

 

 

Easy to say...much harder to do.

Yes, it was the "No actual separateness" that make the individuals not enlightened. What makes one enlightened is the separateness. Only the enlightened one see things that others do not see.

If i am enlightened, then i will know you are not

If you don't see my next reply, it means I'm enlightened....

What are your queries....??? Can share it with us...???

Thank you for sharing your wonderful benefits, ChiDragon.

It was my pleasure. I thank you for your interest and being a good listener.

Why is everybody tend to define what Tao is by their own definition...??? Why don't we listen to LaoTze....???

Tao was defined by LaoTze In Chapters 1 and 14.

Chapter 1 The definition of Tao

1. Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao.

2. A name that can be named is not an eternal name.

3. Invisible was the name given to Tao at the origin of heaven and earth.

4. Visible was the name given to Tao as the mother of all things.

5. Hence, when Tao is always invisible, one would grok its quale.

6. When Tao is always visible, one would observe its boundary.

7. These two come from one origin but differ in name,

8. Both are regarded as fathomless; the most mysterious of the mysterious;

9. The gate of all changes.

********************************************************

Chapter 14 The intangible Tao.

1. View it couldn't see, name and call it Colorless.

2. Listen to it couldn't hear, name and call it Soundless.

3. Touch it couldn't feel, name and call it Formless.

4. These three objects blended in one.

5. Its top not brilliant.

6. Its bottom nor dim.

7. Its continuance unnameable.

8. Returned to being nothing,

9. Is called form of no form.

10. An image of nothing,

11. Is called obscure.

11. Greet it cannot see its head.

13. Follow it cannot see its back.

14. Grasp the presence of Tao,

15. Driven all the present physical being

16. Able to understand the ancient origin,

17. It's called the Principles of Tao.

If you have to tell me then you won't be enlightened

If I tell you then, you won't be understood.

Yes, I agree. Also, the lymph and interstitial fluids will move and cleanse the body more effectively. And I was surprised to learn that one of the by-products to movement exercise (qigong) with rhythmic breathing is...pure water! Free moisturizing capacity...

 

 

Have you experienced this increased movement of the interstital and CS fluids that the embryonic (deep belly) breathing process promotes?

To the best of my knowledge, whatever take place in the body just happen and always the same; and Chi Kung is just an enhancer. It is because by abdominal breathing will increase 20% of air intake to add more oxygen for cell respiration. At the last stage of Cell respiration requires a large amount of oxygen to produce the ATP. ATP is very important for the body to carry out the functions of all the internal organs.

I do agree that the slow movements, in Chi Kung, increase muscle tone and the chemical activity of the muscles. Ever since I practiced Tai Chi and Taoist meditaion Chi Kung. I haven't got sick in the past seven years and not to mention the enhancement of libido.

Well, it is related to creatine, though at the earlier pre-tranformation stage, so it might eventually turn into creatine and contribute to serious Bear like symptoms.

The good thing about Chi Kung is that there was no need for practitioners to take any supplement. Chi Kung will increase the production of bio-energy(ATP) to fine tune the body holistically.

Humans are defining the term Wu Wei is too broad which looses its original TTC meaning.

1. Wu wei is an important concept of the Tao,

Yes, it is an important concept of LaoTze, he was the one who define it in the TTC.

2. That involves knowing when to act and when not to act.

This was not what the TTC was suggesting. This is on the part of us humans.

3. Wu Wei also means natural action--not forced or deviant--flowing from principles of the TTC.

Humans can only follow the natural action as close as possible.

4. For the individual it would be a normal aspect of his/her behavioral repertoire. It would be 'spontaneous', not analytically deliberated.

Yes, this is the part by following the principles of the TTC.

5. Just as, while it's natural for snow to fall in Scandinavia, it's natural for it not to fall in Central Africa. And, even while it is natural for snow to fall in Scandinavia, heavier snow falls are more natural in some areas than in others, and heavier snow falls occur naturally in some years than in others. So, it seems to me that when we speak of what is natural we are speaking not of a single, static position, but of a continuum reflecting both situation and time.

Yes, this is all natural to all because this is all part of Nature. Nature is completely different from human individuals.

6. In speaking of Wu wei this fact is frequently missed by many commentators. And so when observing human action that is swift, decisive and aggressive they automatically label it as a violation of Wu wei, and it may not be.

This all depends how each individual understand or define Wu Wei and abide by one's own definition.

It takes an enlightened one to tell you what enlightenment is. How can an unenlightened one tell you what it is...??? I will come back and tell you what it is when I attained enlightenment.

1. Tendon and muscle may be partially torn but they do not dislocate. If you do, you will have constant pain.

2. If you can maneuver it to feel impeded then a clicking noise. no real pain not in the slightest. It seems like your shoulder joint is slightly dislocated.

Wei Wu Wei

It means one is carrying out the concept of Wu Wei.

I looked up some info on bbca

 

http://www.cps.org.tw/docs/%28Vol54%20No2E%29%20Article%201.pdf

 

looks like the study shows it is good to reduce fatigue after a workout.

 

Any idea if it can be used just as a general supplement? Or would that result in becoming a huge bear of some sort?

The reason one has to take the supplement bbca is because workout is a strenuous exercise. Strenuous exercise consumes lots of ATP. In Chi Kung practice, instead consuming energy, it generates ATP.

This supplement is not a growth hormone, I don't think one takes it will become a huge bear of some sort.

Scientific Explanation of Chi Kung No. 3 - The Biochemical-Mechanical Loop

Although there are many styles in Chi Kung, but there is one commonality. If we observed closely, we will see that breathing is in synchronization with the slow body movements. The combination of the breathing and movements is a biochemical-mechanical loop for completing the muscle contraction process. The muscle contraction requires energy. Thus, it raises the question where does the energy come from?

The muscle tissue consists of body cells. The muscle get the energy from the cells. Within the cell, there are organelles called mitochondria. Mitochondria are the power generators of the cell; using oxygen converting the glucose into the chemical energy. The chemical energy is adenosine triphorsphate(ATP) which powers the cell's metabolic activities. Hence the conversion of ATP from glucose requires the oxygen from breathing, the metabolic process is called cell respiration.

The ATP is used in any reaction we do that needs biological energy, such as breathing, heart beating, nerve message transmission and even lifting weights. ATP can be generated from two sources of oxygen. Hence, there are two processes for energy production depend on the sources. Anaerobic respiration uses the oxygen stored in muscles, in small quantity, can only produce a small amount of energy for one time; and aerobic respiration uses the oxygen from breathing which can generate a large amount of energy constantly.

There are only a small amount of oxygen stored in the muscles. When there is insufficient supply of oxygen in the blood, anaerobic respiration will use the stored amount to produce two molecules of ATP causing oxygen debt. Anaerobic respiration is the worse situation for the body to be in. It is because, with the absence of oxygen, the glucose is converted into lactic acid causing pain and fatigue in the muscles. However, anaerobic respiration only occurs in strenuous exercise.

In Chi Kung, anaerobic respiration will never take place inside the human body. The abdominal breathing method always provide a constant source of oxygen for aerobic respiration. The slow movement causing slight muscle contraction by utilizing the biochemical energy(ATP) produced by the mitochondria. Therefore, the biochemical-mechanical loop can be represented by the formula below:

Glucose + Ob + Om => H20 + CO2 + Heat + Energy

Ob is the oxygen we breathe into the lungs for aerobic respiration. Om is the small amount of oxygen stored in the muscles to be used for anaerobic respiration.

Energy is the number of ATP, in molecules, a dependent of oxygen.

Ob at the left of the formula indicates that the more oxygen we breathe in, the more Energy will be produced at the right. Only Chi Kung can accomplish this condition. The stored Om in muscles were never being used because there are no oxygen debt in Chi Kung practice due to the abdominal breathing method.

In strenuous exercise such as sprints, at the lactic threshold, the heart beats too fast. The heart contracts before the blood were filled completely. Therefore, there are not enough oxygen collected by the blood from the lungs for all the body cells. Due to the lack of oxygen(Ob), anaerobic respiration used the small amount of Om stored in the muscles. The formula becomes:

Glucose + Om => H20 + CO2 + Heat + Energy

The aerobic respiration can no longer take place to generate any more ATP until the oxygen(Om) was paid back to the muscles and breathing returned to normal. The glucose cannot breakdown to produce ATP without oxygen. Therefore, it was converted into lactic acid.

Ref: http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/Scientific_Explanation_of_Chi_Kung_No_3_-_The_Biochemical-mechanical_Loop.html

Living is a continual series of choices. I believe what Lao Zu is teaching is that in some circumstances our best action is to do no thing. That does not mean that in some other situation definitive action shouldn't be taken. Presumably, the sage takes the correct action in every situation.

"Living is a continual series of choices." It was from your point of view to interpret LaoTze's philosophy. That was a common thing to do for most people. My approach was to look at LaoTze's principles first, then I followed.

His whole idea about Wu Wei was to let Nature take its course, being natural, leave them alone. A sage takes the correct action was by not to take action to harm Nature in anyway. For example, a sage would not build a dam on a river to interrupt the water flow and the ecology of the river.