ChiDragon

Can you share links to any informative info about ATP? Here's a Roger Jahnke article: Physiological Effects of Qigong (PDF)

Gladly......

1. http://www.trueorigin.org/atp.asp

2. http://www.brianmac.co.uk/articles/scni2a6.htm

3. http://www.biology.iupui.edu/biocourses/N100/2k4ch7respirationnotes.html

4. http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/C/CellularRespiration.html#36

Those who practice Chi Kung were assuming breathing some kind of energy into the body. Have you ever think about the energy was actually generated, inside the body, by the oxygen that breathe in reacted with the glucose....???

but if you look at it this way then how do you think it would look like the effects of chi kung are supposed to be? Is it supposed to leave you high strung full of explosive energy like you're on cocaine, and for what purpose? What motivation? People think of energy and they think "energizing, alertness, hyperactivity, EXTRA energy", etc. But it could also mean ATP being distributed to where the body is missing it and needs it to perform balancing functions, digestive functions, etc. clearing out blockages where there may be stagnation.

 

That's why I sometimes don't like the idea well of "storing?" energy. Rather if I think of "storing" it's more like a place to collect qi where it will then be distributed to places it needs to go, and out if that's what it needs to do. If I breathe in energy, I usually have to breathe it out and think the energy just passes through me and "vitalizes" me wherever it needs to, and then goes out.

If you really understand what ATP is and how it was generated, then you will know that is exactly what is happening inside your body. If you breathe in more oxygen, you will have more ATP energy. If your body does not dissipate the excessive energy, it will be gone in seconds until the next inhalation with more oxygen. Finally, the ATP will help the body to repair itself in a damaged area by mitosis.

Chidragon ( 麒龙 ? Is this your name in Chinese ?).

 

Thanks very much for your translations. Appreciate kathyli's initial posting.

Let me add more:

 

不老实，多诡诈，一言一语皆虚假；暗藏盗心不虔诚，谁肯洩露真造化。

If he / she is not honest, more deceitful, like false word spoken, hidden stealing heart and no piety, no body will reveal true good fortune to him / her.

 

不修行，不积功，妄想平地上天宫；自古多少成真客，那个不是大德翁。

If he / she dose not practice, and not accumulate virtue, it's impossible for him / her reaching heaven from earth; since ancient times, all the immortal sages are genuine alchemist with high virtue.

Thank you for the kind words. Chidragon is 氣龙(龍).

I would translate the following terms as shown below:

修行: cultivate; cultivation

妄想: wistful thinking

Thus the proper translation for:

不修行，不积功,妄想平地上天宫

If one does not cultivate nor accumulate merits, then, one should not be having any wistful thinking about rising to heaven from earth.

自古多少成真客，那个不是大德翁。

Since ancient time, many people become immortal, which one is not a high virtuous individual.

youzifive, 請多多指教。

I've jut been wondering how much of the affects of "qi" in my early practices was just placebo and positive health effects of deep conscious breathing.

 

Obviously the Chinese know better just what is the "qi" that they refer to, as it's a cultural concept. To them it's just a normal fact of life and nothing special.

I like your opened mind about the last statement.

If we look at Chi microscopically, with the help of modern science, I would say Chi is the biochemical energy produced by the mitochondria in the body cell called adenosine triphosphate(ATP). For those who practice Chi Kung should know something about physiology based on this statement: "positive health effects of deep conscious breathing."

LaoTze always talks about Wu Wei in few chapters of the Tao Te Ching. What is Wu Wei mean....??? What is your best understand about Wu Wei...??? Thanks...!!!

"do no thing" is very different than "do nothing"

How about "do no thing to cause harm" as oppose to "do nothing to cause harm" ...???

Wu Wei is not "do nothing" rather "do nothing to cause harm"

When a wise scholar hears the Tao,

He practices it diligently.

When a mediocre scholar hears the Tao,

He wavers between belief and unbelief.

When a worthless scholar hears the Tao,

He laughs boisterously at it.

Question: Is there such thing as a worthless scholar. If a scholar is worthless, is he a scholar...???

At your age you don't need to worry about. Any energy you expend through orgasm will be replaced very quickly. Check out Dan Reid's "The Tao of Health, Sex, and Longevity".

 

From what I've seen here and on other forums so many people want to jump into the sexual stuff before they've sorted out the basics. Get into a regular practice with a good, qualified teacher - get your emotional, spiritual, and physical life regulated then move on to the more advanced stuff. And seriously, how many posts do we need to see with people injuring themselves after learning these practices from a book. This is one of the reasons they were secret for so long.

 

A very wise teacher in China told me not everyone is meant to be a monk, or celibate. You have to find the practice that makes sense for you, your constitution, and your lifestyle.

Non...

I am totally agree with robmix.

"And seriously, how many posts do we need to see with people injuring themselves after learning these practices from a book. This is one of the reasons they were secret for so long."

What you are doing is jumping the gun. What you are now is just an ordinary person without and practice of Chi Kung. Do you know that you must practice many years of Chi Kung to build up your libido and perform sex without hurting yourself...??? Reading something from a book and start practicing some unknown method which you are not ready for and unfamiliar with is very dangerous to your health.

First off, sorry for my speedy response and thank you everyone for your replies. I appreciate them greatly. I probably am having a stronger reaction to them than is normal, haha. It makes me feel like crying but not in a bad way. They're a relief and they're helpful.

 

1. The physical health is fairly well from what I can tell. I have phantom side pains in my lower abdomen, but thus far testing hasn't revealed anything abnormal. The consensus is that it's psychosomatic from, surprise, stress. Mental health... better than it has been. The official diagnosis is PTSD.

 

2. I was lying down and doing head to toe relaxation/dissolving outlined in your typical Bruce Frantzis book. (I don't usually lay down, but the boyfriend wanted me to come to bed and he finds it creepy if I do it sitting :\)

 

3. The anger I experienced in my meditation? I couldn't tell where the anger started and I began or vic versa. It felt like the only thing in me that was real and everything else was a lie. I can elaborate more if needed.

 

4. Being expected to shoulder the blame for the indiscretions of others against myself seems to be a reoccurring theme.

Thank you very much for your honest answer telling the truth about yourself.

1. You have phantom side pains in your lower abdomen, how does it bother you...??? How often do you feel this pain...??? Are you taking any medication for it or does it help...???

2. In your mediation, were you thinking about something all the time...??? Or, you don't think of anything at all...??? Do you do any special breathing while meditate...???

3. Yes, please can you elaborate more on item #3.

4. This seems to be yourself worse weakness. I think you can overcome that by follow the principles of Tao. Tao is natural. Natural has an implication of being neutral.

What I can see is that your issue was immanent. If you can meditate in a neutral state, that will help you to put your mind at ease. Why don't you answer questions #2 and #3, then we go from there...

So as I was driving today and thinking I re-re-re-re-rerealized that I have a lot of anger and frustration. What kind of lead to that was I was thinking about something weird that happened when I was meditating a few days ago.

It wasn't quite a visual hallucination as I didn't actually see it, and it wasn't a tactile hallucination as I didn't feel it, but for a few seconds the skin on the front of my torso "appeared" and "felt" to have been severely burned and/or scarred and I "was" anger and pain. It felt like that was all there was to me and like everything else is just a mask for this badness. After this happened I, as the kids say these days, "noped" and stopped what I was doing.

 

Yes I am an angry person. No, I do not express it in my day to day life as it usually only leads to people reacting in a way that will either victimize me and/or anger me further. No, it is not an option to express this anger.

 

Comments/critiques/etc appreciated but not expected.

 

Thanks! <3

"Yes I am an angry person."

1. Can you tell us your health condition...???

2. What did you do in your meditation...???

3. Can you tell something more about your anger...???

4. What triggered your anger the most in the past..???

It seems like you have reached the ultimate goal of Chi Kung. Just make it your normal breathing habit then you got it made.

FYI....

Chest breathing is not a complete form of Chi Kung. It is because, chest breathing is still under the control of the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system. If you are lack of oxygen, the heart will pump faster and breathe faster. Only abdominal breathing was mind controlled. Due to abdominal breathing, ample of oxygen provided to circulate in the blood, the heart do not have to do extra work by beating faster than normal.

so, with healthy dose of chi. As an appetizer, dessert, or on the side ?

That is correct......

How did you know....???

2)I started my qigong practise during my illness, and I started actually with the practise of abdominal breathing sitting on a chare, accoriding to Mantak Chias first book. Yes it was extremely hard for me to even do ten abdominal breaths. My breathing was severe restricted, from a period of my life with huge stress. I succecively learned to breath more and more abdominals. I tried to reach about 20 and did so afterr a mounth or so , but I was totaly echausted when reaching that many. I was also sweating alot and there was an uncounsious resistance that tryed to stop me from going on, so I found myself doing this ower and ower again: I had an intention to sit and breath for instance 20 breaths this day during one seat, but already after 5 breaths I found that I raised from the chair for any reason I could found, and this happened repetedly many times.

FD...

The reason I posted thread was because I had noticed that some of the people were doing the abdominal breathing incorrectly. My intent here is not to criticize someone's breathing method but to corrected it as I see fit.

I had practice Taiji for more the thirty years. Then I switched to Chi Kung for simplicity. By your description of doing your abdominal breathing was not quiet correct, that was why it was extremely hard for you to even do ten abdominal breaths. You were totaly exhausted when reaching 20.

The problem you are having was because you were fighting your breathing in a very unnatural way. May I recommend you do the following.

1. Do not count how many times of breathing because that will make you loose concentration.

2. You just close your eyes and look down toward the tip of your nose. You just relax and breathe as slow as you can and deep as you can. Don't even think about that you are doing abdominal breathing. Just let the breath stop where ever it can until you are very comfort without any dizziness. You just have to let your breath go down slowly, until one day, reaches your abdomen. Another word, in the meantime, do not force your breath down to your abdomen.

Remember, your breath must go down from your nose, throat, chest then abdomen. Do not skip or force your breath from throat to abdominal, literally speaking. Your breath only goes into your lungs but the abdomen. Abdominal breathing was only a description that your lungs were full of air at the highest capacity.

Let me tell my own breathing problem history. I had a breathing problem when I was a teenager. My breaths were so shallow. I cannot even finish a sentence with one breath. Therefore, I took TaiJi lessons, the Yang style 108 movements. I was told not to concentrate on my breathing as a beginner, but just do the movements and let them guide my breathing.

Let me start with my own breathing history. I had a breathing problem when I was a teenager. My breaths were so shallow. I cannot even finish a sentence with one breath. Therefore, I took Tai Chi lessons, the Yang style 108 movements. I was told not to concentrate on my breathing as a beginner, but just do the movements and let them guide my breath. After years of practice, my breaths get deeper progressively down to my abdomen. Abdominal breathing is the highest goal that a Chi Kung practitioner wants to achieve. Then it will become a natural habit in ordinary breathing. Just breathe like a baby.

The goal of abdominal breathing has been reached. Now, I can complete one sentence with one breath and with extra breaths left. Now, I can sing like a tenor with a full vocal range. My body has a tremendous strength to do my daily chores. My reflexes are swift and fast. I can catch a falling object from the table before it reaches the floor. It was just a normal reaction without thinking which might cause hesitation. Also, I can shop up a chicken, in five minutes, in an orderly serving fashion on a plate. My reaction are much quicker then an ordinary person.

My main diet are chicken, fish, green vegetables, and almond or other nuts for my snacks. Most importantly, breathe in lots of oxygen by abdominal breathing as my normal breathing habit. Eating alone does not give you energy, it must be the combination of eating and breathing.

Taoist philosophy with Wu Wei is the way to go for me.

Those who did natural breathing or chest breathing, in Chi Kung practice, but not abdominal breathing:

Did your health improve and how did it improve resulted from your practice...???

Those who reached the abdominal breathing level, regardless of what type of Chi Kung:

1. Did you have a health problem before you practiced Chi Kung...???

2. Was it hard for you to reach the level of abdominal breathing...???

3. How long did it take you to do abdominal breathing...???

4. Did you see any improvement in your health after years of practice...???

That has not been my experience, but sure, body movements and breath will produce some noticeable energy movement.

 

1. It'd be nice to know where these movements came from. Did someone just make it up

2. is it based on any particular modality - 5 elements, meridian theory, etc. ?

 

3. Has the teacher been practicing for decades or a week ?

4. Who were his teachers ?

 

5. Is there a history of students achieving better health, and lifestyle through this system ?

6. Is there a timeframe and sequence for the students to become teachers, or is it basically if you can pay you can teach ?

 

7. Basic questions from anyone who has any experience with internal arts. . . .

 

8. The thread that Creation linked to says it all.

To answer question #1 will answer all the rest of the questions except #8. I think you had said it all "body movements and breath will produce some noticeable energy movement". However, it needs to be rephrased: "body movements and breath will produce all the energy."

All body movements were made up by someone or where else would they come from...??? They all cause muscle contraction which what is most effective in Chi Kung practice. It really doesn't matter what kind of movements that you do. It was the muscle contraction that was doing all the work to give you the health benefits. It goes the same to breathing, it doesn't matter how you breathe, the air goes into you lungs and collected by the read blood cells. To be more specific, actually, it was the platelets that was picking up the oxygen from the lungs and delivered to the body cells.

If you are doing Chi Kung, you are doing internal arts already. If you would study the basics from physiology and how the body function you will know what I meant.

Sometime knowing the Truth hurts, what was the truth that had hurt you the most in your life time...???

What is qi revolution ?? I've seen the ads for it but it looks like an exercise they created and called qigong. Anyone have any info on this practice ??

 

 

http://qirevolution.com/

Please keep in mind Qigong in Qigong. People would like you to think that theirs are different from others and come up with a fancy name. They claim they have special effects. But, hey, Qigong is breathing and body movements. What other popular Qigong do you see that doesn't do these two things.