ChiDragon

I don't follow.

 

The line ends with "indestructible". I asked, "which is indesctructible"?

 

Either it is the "One" or it is the "Foundation".

 

I was not asking anything about establish. I was not quoting the line. I put quotes around the choices to show what I was asking.

 

I asked MH and apparently MH understood what I asked.

 

If you don't understand what I am asking, just ask for some clarification. Maybe it's an english convention of comparing with quotes which was not understood. I was not trying to quote the entire line again but which one was the "subject" of being indestructible.

 

----

 

I think I now see what your referring to, when I wrote:

"one who can is indestructible"

 

I was not quoting the original line. I was paraphrasing what I saw as the subject (one) to indestructible.

 

If I had paraphrased the other possible subject, it would of read:

"A good foundation is indescructible"

 

I was NOT quoting the original line but reducing it to the subject.

I see what you are asking now. However, it is obvious that LaoTze was not talking a human body that is indestructible. It was not logical anyway. "Establishing a good foundation" was a metaphor implicating that someone had made a preparation to be good at something. e.g. If one went to school to earn a degree in Engineering, it was said to be that one has established a good foundation for his/her education. Thus something one had learned is unforgettable(indestructible).

How does it read to you: Which is indestructible?

 

The "one who can" or the "good foundation" ?

 

When I read it, it reads as the "one who can is indestructible" which I think should be the latter instead.

1. 善建者不拔

1. One who can establish a good foundation will be indestructible.

I guess the word "establish" was left out, purposely, to twist the original meaning again.

Good consideration. True, 'diligence' almost sounds religious. Hehehe. We are spontaneous people. Don't have to get down on our knees and smash our head against the ground five times a day.

 

Perhaps though, diligence is necessary for those who have not yet attained the clarity of spontaneity?

6. 強行者有志。

A more direct translation would be:

6. The one who forces oneself to do something has volition.

Annotation:

"Diligence" is a form of discipline which one has to be forced upon oneself by will.

What is so religious about it....???

More! More! Give me more!

Is that what she said to you?

That would be fun too!

為無為，

則無不治。

With an attitude of Wu Wei,

Then, there is nothing that cannot be handled.

 

Yup, I can see how you arrived at that. I dig it.

It was not what it seems to be, but that is the actual translation.

Thanks for pointing that out. This is important, I think.

Really....???

Good.

 

1. (I don't know if that is true or not but that doesn't matter. Hehehe.)

 

2. (It has been said that everyone has a breaking point.)

1. It was only an inspirational philosophical statement.

2. In a practical sense, yes, my practical man....

6. One who is diligent is ambitious.

 

Your translation is similar to others but I suggest that we need read this line with caution. The word "ambitious" can be misguiding.

My original translation for this line was:

6. One who is diligent has volition.

Will this work.....???

為無為，

則無不治。

With an attitude of Wu Wei,

Then, there is nothing that cannot be handled.

um, cult brainwashing? that can be very detrimental. Other than that it [unfortunately] is a very good, but incomplete practice.

After all, it is a Buddhist cult. What could be bad about it...???

Chapter 33

1. One who knows others is intelligent.

2. One who knows oneself is brilliant.

3. One who exceeds others has strength.

4. One who is self contained is strong.

5. One who is self contented is rich.

6. One who is diligent has volition.

7. Not loosing one's foundation will be long lasting.

8. One who passed away but not forgotten,

9. It's longevity.

33

1. 知人者智，

2. 自知者明。

3. 勝人者有力，

4. 自勝者強。

5. 知足者富。

6. 強行者有志。

7. 不失其所者久。

8. 死而不亡者，

9. 壽。

Edited:

6. One who is diligent is ambitious has volition.

Oh, oh!!! And this:

 

Second, wu 巫 could be cognate with wu 舞 "to dance". Based on analysis of ancient characters, Hopkins (1920, 1945) proposed that wu 巫 "shaman", wu 無 "not have; without", and wu 舞 "dance", "can all be traced back to one primitive figure of a man displaying by the gestures of his arms and legs the thaumaturgic powers of his inspired personality" (1945:5).

 

Hehehehe

 

Reference:

 

http://en.wikipedia....an)#Etymologies

I don't see these three characters could be cognate, at least not through my life experience.

PS...

I don't see any significant truth in your reference.

"1. One who's good in building a foundation cannot be pulled it out."

 

Clean up Line 1 grammatically and I would say you have a good translation.

Thanks. I'll do.

1. 善建者不拔

1. One who can establish a good foundation will be indestructible.

Just to be clear, are you disputing the connection of 無 wú with the Wu shamans??

 

Yes, actually I am disputing with all these three characters. I do admit I was confused with the phonetics "Wu" just by itself and the pictogram of the ancient characters.

巫(wu1): Shamans

無(wu2): None

舞(wu3): Dance

The problem using phonetics for the Chinese characters is really fanatic. It's better use the Pinyin system to distinguish the characters. It is still not perfect but it's close to the pronunciation.

If we just say "wu" without looking at the actual character, we cannot determine what the actual character is. Perhaps, if the character is within a phrase, then it may be determined from the context. Otherwise, we have to assume what we think what it might be. If we're looking at "wu", it can be both characters as shown below.

無(wu2): None

舞(wu3): Dance

1. One of the reasons of calling it gong cultivation could be to set it apart from other exercises and appear superior or maybe to highlight its issues with mixing with other practises.

 

2. Another issue are the teachings and the effect they have on people.

1. 功(gong): The meaning of the character by itself implies "cultivation" already. If one says "gong cultivation", it was really saying "cultivation cultivation". What I am trying to say was that there is no such term as "gong cultivation".

2. I hear lots of compliments about the practice of Falun Dafa. Many people with different illnesses had been cured by this practice. May I hear from you what kind of adversities that may have on people....???

In my mind this would be perfect if the word "know" in line 2 were replace with "recognize" or some similar word.

Chapter 52

1. The beginning of the world was considered to be the root of all things.

2. If we've discovered its root, then we'll recognized all things.

3. If we recognized all things and held on to its root,

4. Then, there will be no danger throughout life.

5. .....

Chapter 54 Cultivation

1. One who's good in building a foundation cannot be pulled it out.

2. One who's good in embracing it will not loose it.

3. The offspring performs memorial service to honor the ancestors will not cease.

4. Cultivated it to oneself, his virtue is real.

5. Cultivated it to a family, his virtue is excess.

6. Cultivated it to a hometown, his virtue is forever.

7. Cultivated it to a country, his virtue is abundant.

8. Cultivated it to the world, his virtue is common.

9. Therefore,

10. Using myself to observe others;

11. Using my family to observe other families;

12. Using my hometown to observe other towns;

13. Using my country to observe other countries;

14. Using my territory to observe other territories;

15. How do I know what is going on around me...???

16. From all these...!!!

Note: Lines 4 through 16 were referred to the foundation in lines 1 through 3.

Chapter 54

1. 善建者不拔

2. 善抱者不脫。

3. 子孫以祭祀不輟。

4. 修之於身其德乃真。

5. 修之於家其德乃餘。

6. 修之於鄉其德乃長。

7. 修之於邦其德乃豐。

8. 修之於天下其德乃普。

9. 故

10.以身觀身，

11.以家觀家，

12.以鄉觀鄉，

13.以邦觀邦，

14.以天下觀天下。

15.吾何以知天下然哉﹖

16.以此。

Hi, folks

May I clarify something here...!!!

"Dafa cultivation is absolutely Gong cultivation, not Chi cultivation."

Any practice involving with breathing is called Chi Kung. Actually, Chi kung or gong is Chi cultivation.

Falun Dafa is a form of Chi Kung. From the name itself, we can see it has a Buddhist flavor. The reason the CCP government is against them was not because of their religion. The main reason was that this group is getting too big and it has a great assembly power. The CCP was afraid that they might overthrow the government. I don't need to say the rest.

I agree it is more skillful to have some grasp on individual perspectives before combining. On the other hand, I'm not really combining, I'm looking at the same "reality" through the different perspectives and seeing the similarities between the views and how each reflects the same truth. On the other hand,

 

1. I defy you to show me pure Buddhism, Daoism, or Confucianism in China. They are as combined as one could imagine and have been so for centuries...

 

2. Thanks for the clarification of Wu.

1. If you are talking about people's thinking, yes, they are confused as hell just like the rest of the world. However, in the actual practice of each individual religion, it is NOT true. There is a big distinction between them.

2. You welcome.

This is a problem with incompetent people teaching internal arts thinking they are just gentle external excercise. I believe zi fa gong is spontaneous movemement chi kung, if so its just as simple as slowing down the chi flow gently and storing the energy at the dan tian.

As an analogy if you are driving a car quickly (fast chi flow) you dont slam the brakes the stop the car, you slow down gradually.

Also if you are a beginner dont practice to vigorously as you don't have good control.

自發功(zi fa gong)

Let me tell you what 自發(zi fa) is. It means "automatic" from the inner self without control. After you begin your movements, you're just moving around all over the place restlessly in motion with the eyes closed.

So if someone is saying nasty things to you, can you sit by and let them tell you about thier-self?

 

Why not....!!!

Could it be that these are different descriptions of the same experiences? Of course changed over the years a bit fue to the ineffable Murphy's Law.

It can be done if you are willing to keep track of it like I do. Of course, you cannot do it from the internet because they were contaminated beyond recognition. It is hard to unlearn something that was in one's mind already.....

1. To me, allowing both Daoist and Buddhist perspectives to help hone in on truth is more skillful than limiting one's perspective to one or another dogma.

 

2. That was taken directly from the Chinese character dictionary online.

1. It is OK only if you knew the difference between the two philosophies at the beginning before combining them together. Of course, this is only my impartial opinion.

2. I know you got it online. Unfortunately, any errors found cannot be corrected and it is very misleading and confusing.

Hi, all

It's about time someone ask this intelligent question...!!!

 

"Wu Wei" means "doing nothing and accomplish nothing". That is the direction translation from this compound characters 無為.

 

Again, by LaoTze's definition with his stand alone thinking and wisdom, Wu Wei was his patented term, so to speak. LaoTze had written the whole Tao Te Ching based on the concept of Wu Wei.

 

Wu Wei was his philosophy which include all these meanings:

1. Let Nature take its course.

2. Take no abusive action.

3. Do nothing to interrupt or cause harm to Nature.

 

Hence, his idea was always giving us the notion that he was more concern with the negative attributes than the positive.

Informer...

LaoTze's idea was always giving us the notion that he was more concern with the negative attributes than the positive. If we stay within his definition, it will narrow it down to just the NEGATIVE attributes.