ChiDragon

1.Well I told you to do it before doing any explaination and not give an explaination

and not doing it.

2.Believe? Common sense is that you check the things physical others telling.

Well, I don't do anything, fanatically, which I don't believe in...

If I do it for that reason and keep on tacking and counting on the breaths, I will loose my mind. Speaking about regulating the mind....???

PS...

I had shot his method down in the Hong Kong Chi Kung site once before.

ChiDragon,

 

My good results came primarily from mind methods.

 

Also my spine was noticeably healed from these methods, in addition to other things.

What are the other things, is breathing included...??? If yes, to what extent of breathing...???

I try to be more accurate; and I am not familiar with the "mind method". Can you be more specific and describe the "mind methods"...???

Thank you.

Here is the statistic for my survey. These people claimed that they are in better health or healthier than before practicing Chi Kung.

1 .-K-

3 yrs with belly breathing(abdominal breathing)

2. Scotty:

Always feel good and don't get sick.

3. Informer:

"I don't get sick anymore. Other than allergies and a bit of sneezing, my body destroy's any infections before they can get a foothold."

4. OldGreen:

"Physically i have always been in good health. Emotionally and spiritually speaking i am a lot healthier, very balanced, less anxiety."

5. Bauguakid:

20+ years; health is still improving.

6. Lifeforce: 9 yrs,

1. Increased energy and concentration.

2. A sense of extreme well-being and contentment with life.

3. The immune system is significantly boosted. I very rarely suffer from colds, flu, and viral infections.

7. LBDaoist:

9 yrs, "Better flexibility. Less serious illness. Positive vibrations and improved connectedness with those around me."

8. ChiDragon:

1. 36 years(Tai Ji and Chi Kung).

2. Whenever I can.

3. Healthy sights:

a. Corrected my breathing Problem and no more hypoxia,

b. Have lots of Jin,

c. Great muscle tone,

d. Improved eye sights.

e. Sing like a baritone,

f. Fast reflexes and more alert,

g. Strong wrist, arms and legs.

h. Faster reaction on the road and had avoided numerous of car accidents,

i. Did not get sick in the last seven to eight years since practicing Chi Kung,

j. Increase of libido.

4. With lots of abdominal breathings.

ChiDragon,

1. the method is 3 deep breath followed by percentage breathing,Normal breathing then 3 Deep breath with exhale trough the mouth.

2. There is a difference please try this in this way and listen closely to the video. Science always proof and reproof their result after a time.

 

Edit: You have a chance to see a theory which is slightly different than the mainstream Qigong.

It seems this percentage breathing exist only in that lineage.

 

Q

Don't be silly.

1. It doesn't matter by the number of breaths or percentage or exhale through the mouth. It was the amount of oxygen inside the lungs that really counts.

If you inhale then exhale too soon, eventually, you have wasted the unused portion of oxygen in the body.

2. Don't believe everything that somebody tells you and use common sense.

PS...

It seems like that somebody does not have any scientific knowledge about breathing and oxygen.

Edited to revise line 1 to read.

1. ......It was the amount of oxygen and carbon dioxide inside the lungs that really counts.

PSS...

I was surprised that nobody challenge me on this one.

So then lets try something.

 

Here is a Qigong Method which heavy based on the idea of breathing.

 

 

Are you mind to try this method and share your perception of what is happening in your body and giving possible scientific explaination?

 

(You not need Ginger, except you want try the 100 days for experimentation, you may order a personal practise discussion from the mods since nobody did yet and your dilligence and disciplin will be very helpful since you already very good on breathing - arording to your post until now, and now people here want to know if there is a difference, since others are maybe not so good and may cheat themselves.).

 

Feel free to repeat this often as shared in this Video so you have a series of test.

 

Q

I do not have to wait for 100 days and tell you now. I have been breathing like this by the minute 7/24. Now, I am in front of my monitor sitting on a flat end table in a zezen position and do abdominal breathing as my normal breathing habit. When I watch TV, I am sitting on a 24 inch diameter flat table six inches above the floor and do abdominal breathing.

I did not get sick in the past seven to eight years. I will have a scientific explanation to tell you why I don't get sick because I have enhanced my immune system from this breathing method. I don't care who takes my words or not because in works based on my own believes.

Edited to add:

I heard lots of Chi Kung experts here talking about their learned method and theories; but so far, I haven't seen much of their experiences and results posted in my other thread.

Yes.Thanks for enqiuiring , I should have made clear.

http://www.disapedia.com/index.php?title=Myalgic_Encephalomyelitis_(ME)

Myalgic Encephalomyelitis affects the brain and spinal cord which control the body, allow thought and sensory processing, causing dysautonomia, impaired thinking and loss of internal homeostasis, the process whereby the body maintains a consistent internal environment in response to external stressors. Cellular metabolism and communication is disrupted, causing inefficiency in all biological processes. This includes the cellular mitochondria which process fuel to make energy, resulting in a deficiency of adenosine-triphosphate ATP with a chronic, severe, measurable loss of sustainable strength on exertion. A hallmark of ME is intolerance to previously trivial effort and deterioration through persistent or repeated exertion (often resulting in relapse).

I had been investigating on the ATP for the last few years. This was all related to Chi Kung. Unfortunately, nobody cares about what I am saying. Here is one of my posted in the forum, indicating people do not get sick because of they have been practicing Chi Kung.

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/19727-how-did-chi-kung-improve-your-health/

What Chi Kung does is to enhance the immune system. As a matter of fact, the immune system has a variety of white blood cells. If we can maintain the maximum number of these white cells that the body allows, then it will fight off all kind of chronic diseases. Chi Kung can cure ME but it will require a very lengthy practice daily, almost like a full time job.

I like this. Actually, I know this. Been there, done that.

I know you did trigger the A-bomb.....

What is to gain when we know the Chinese Definition of Qigong,

when we already use it ChiDragon.

 

Q

Ahh..

Nice to hear from you with more intelligent questions....

First of all, knowing its origin source is better to be confused with the offshoots.

One who understands the basic fundamental concept will appreciate it more and practice more diligently with better results.

I think you develop that out of qigong practice, but not the other way around.

 

John

The practice of Qigong has three requirements.

No.1, regulating your breathing

No.2, controlling your mind

No.3, regulate your body

It says "three requirements" NOT "three results"

Now you're just completely making things up.

LaoTze says:

One who doesn't understand tao laughs.

One who only understand tao a little is with doubt.

One who understands tao practice diligently.

Sure and thats one source, not the only source.

 

If it were, it would be a very limited place to get qi.

 

Lomax's view.

 

What I want to know is did you create this threat to actually look at this and be willing to accept a new view on it? Or do you just want this to be true, and are looking for validation through others?

 

John

Ref link: Sholin Qigong

The practice of Qigong has three requirements.

No.1, regulating your breathing

No.2, controlling your mind

No.3, regulate your body

According to Ya Mu, Qi is not breath. Him and Terry Dunn, and maybe others would be worth while to ask this.

 

And it's been my experience that it isn't either, in doing practices like FPQG, the breath will naturally open up and my body do what it is supposed to, without my direction.

 

That the mind will just mess it up.

 

You could also ask Jenny lamb through email.

 

John

Hi there,

 

I think the Chinese definition of what Qi Gong, depends on where you go?!! I think the starting point is that there are many different forms of 'exercise', where does internal training finish and Qi gong start? Where does Qi gong end and martial art begin? Isn't internal training combined with external, can one be devoid of the other? Perhaps we should be looking at the source and not at its branches?

The Chi starts as "Breath" then turns into "Energy".

Hi there,

 

Perhaps we should be looking at the source and not at its branches?

Without a good foundation in breathing, it's hard to get to advanced level.

The thread has kind of moved sideways from Chidragon's initial assertion that Qi is breath, and breath only, and that Qigong is only working with breath. The idea that qigong could be done without any specific breath work was only used as an example to refute his claims.

Very Wise....!!!

You are a gentleman and a scholar.

Already a wrong approach because western science does not consider in its theory - qi. And qi is not something virtual, but very real energy.

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adenosine_triphosphate

1. In order to properly consider the question from this point of view, it is necessary to study the course of organic chemistry and biology. You make this offer?

 

2. Then, good master qigong for whom qi is not a virtual energy (about what many talk), but a very real energy, must apply this theory and his practical knowledge and experience and explain it to you.

You are hoping to find here such a man? )))

Nevertheless, let's try to find here the main problem...

3.At first, you wrote: "The muscle contraction requires a biochemical energy called adenosine triphosphate, ATP". Please explain what is it -"The muscle contraction" ? when it occur?

1. That is something you have to find out youself. If you do a google search, you can read it all over the internet.

2. That all depends how far is the level of understanding that each individual wants to attain.

3. Google Muscle and "ATP" online.

Edited to add:

I did not see your Chi Kung experience posted here yet:

Input your CK experience

Edited to add again:

1. Already a wrong approach because western science does not consider in its theory - qi.

 

2. And qi is not something virtual, but very real energy.

1. Who decided that "qi" was not in the western science theory...??? And how do you justified that...???

2. ATP is not real energy.....???????????

命 ming is the Chinese equivalent of Fate/Destiny.

Yuanfen is not as strong and broadly-applicable a term, more akin to a "synchronous" ("the experience of two or more events, that are apparently causally unrelated or unlikely to occur together by chance, that are observed to occur together in a meaningful manner") meeting/connection between 2 people..

But from the horse's own mouth?

There is a nuance between the two in application.

1. 緣 is like two people are meant to be met by fate.

2. 命 is like for a fixed event that will happen. e.g. Someone will die when crossing a street and hit by a car.

I don't think so. At least, many of the scholarly sources indicate otherwise. Just wanted to understand it's connection with the 'Fire'.

火喉 is an expression to indicate that how good the practitioner is based on how long and experience of the practice.

Edited:

Ok, I'm sorry, here is the term really connected to the "Fire".

Actually, the term was derived from cooking. It describes the cooking level of the food depends on how long it has been cooked. Hence, the term was used to describe or to determine the experience of the chef. It, also, describes the quality of the dish was being prepared such as the color, arrangement and flavor.

Now-a-days, it was also used to describe other things too as I had it in the first place....

Ha ha, I wouldn't. Just posted that because the bolded ideas are interesting.

Especially the one about "Teaching the method, but not the Fire"

 

I wonder if this Fire thing is the same as huohou 火喉.

火喉 is an expression to indicate that how good the practitioner is based on how long and experience of the practice.

Let's start with a deep oxygenated breath and an open mind. There are lots of ideas that we can be reading about but some are only superficial. Sometimes, we need to absorb the good information and filter the unwanted. However, if there was a missing link, then it needs to be found elsewhere. Let's look at Tai Ji for instance, it improved my breathing problem just by the continuous practice. It also gives me good muscle tone and transform some of the muscles to a fast twitch type of muscles. What are the reasons behind all this. However, a good Tai Ji instructor will not and cannot tell me all the good reasons. Since the key factors here are about the physical change of the body by the slow moments and breathing, I need to go to a good reliable source for a scientific explanation about what is taken place in my body while performing the Tai Ji exercise. Mainly, I want to come to a conclusion that why breathing is a must in Chi Kung. To find a good answer, I must use western science for a good source of information.

If we want to talk about energy, then this is the right place for it. Let's start with the requirement of the muscle contraction. The muscle contraction requires a biochemical energy called adenosine triphosphate, ATP. The ATP are generated by the mitochondria in the muscles. The ATP requires lots of oxygen to be combined with the glucose in order to be generated. The movements in Tai Ji are always having the the arms and legs bent which causing all the muscles to be contracted slightly.

Each time when the muscles contract, the mitochondria in the muscles generate the ATP energy for the contraction. The ATP will be collapsed as soon the muscle are relaxed. Therefore, new ATP will be needed for the next contraction. In order to generate the ATP continuously, a constant source of oxygen must be provided. Guess where the source of oxygen came from. You guessed, it was from breathing. However, in our regular breathing will not be enough but we want to provide a maximum amount of oxygen possible to the body. Hence, that is where the "abdominal breathing" comes into the picture.

What the "abdominal breath" does was to have the abdomen fully expanded to flatten the diaphragm allowing the lung to increase its volume to hold a maximum amount of air possible. The Tia Ji breathes slowly was to allow ample of time for the red blood cells to collect the oxygen and delivered to the muscle cells to generate the ATP for contraction. In conclusion, Tai Ji was considered to be a form of Chi Kung was by the Chinese definition of Chi Kung which requires "abdominal breathing".

in all fairness to amateur translators with sub-par english their "translations" make as much sense as those "professional" ones, i . e - none.

 

 

 

both of them have no clue whatsoever

 

天下之至柔,馳騁天下之至堅.

 

do they have any idea that the first line means smth like "in order to completely subdue the country - the punitive expeditions must be executed with extreme prejudice"?

 

no they dont.

Extreme prejudice...???

No, it is not if one interpret it correctly.

Proper translation:

1. 天下之至柔,

1. The softest in the world,

2. 馳騁天下之至堅.

2. subdues the hardest in the world.

FYI...

My conclusion of this thread did not come the Chinese literature. As I say before, I did not believe any of it. It is because the Chinese only say what it is and it works; all the given reasons for the "WHY" do not make any sense. For being an engineer, I have tell myself there got to be a scientific explanation for Chi Kung. Then, I read and read and just cannot come to a conclusion from the Chinese materials. I told myself, I have to look else where like into the western science world. They are full of scientific information that might help me to draw to some kind of conclusion.

First, I do was to observe what is so peculiar about Chi Kung. If I watch any demonstration of Chi Kung, I saw the practitioner always move the arms, legs and breath slowly. Have you ever wonder how come only the Chi Kung practitioners are so healthy as oppose to normal people...??? The normal people do breathe and move but why some of them are not so healthy...???

I gave that a deep thought that must be a reason for moving slow and breathe deeply. Since performing Chi Kung is improving our health, it must be something has to do with physiology. So, I studied physiology on my own and experimented with slow body movements and do abdominal breathings.

I practiced Tai Ji for many years, I figured that since by moving the muscles and deep breathing slowly. I thought to myself why don't I not do the Tai Ji movements but just do some simple movements by standing in a 4' by 4' area. All the movements include moving the arms, legs, wrist, waist, and head. Since I already knew how to do abdominal breathing from Tai Ji, I can do that with no problem.

I do this exercise, whenever I am standing free, like watching TV, in the back yard for the last eight years. I have found that my health improved more drastically and my body is much stronger as compared to doing Tai Ji. It was because Tai Ji requires lots of space and time which I cannot practice it as often; but now I can practice more with this simple movements.

1. How long have you been practicing...

 

20+ years

 

2. How often do you practice...

 

Everyday, 1 to 3 hours a day depending on responsiblities.

 

3. How did your health improved...

 

still improving.

After 20+ years and 1 to 3 hours a day and your health is still improving...???

Can you talk about that little more....??? Please...!!!

Is there any particular illness that you might have....???

It seems to me that most of the people would like to leave everything as is.

Is there anybody would like to discussion Chi Kung scientifically to investigate why it is giving us a healthy body.....????

PS....

I know, I'm a pain in the "S"....

Yes, when breathing, an external qi is absorbed from the air, and this is post-heaven qi (气 or 气)

But if some of qigong is used this principle as the main method, this is wrong, this distortion and going away from the traditional methods of the neidan. Flee from such masters away.

 

On the other hand, is now to find the right methods ... everywhere and global ignorance of these matters.

 

In the ancient times mainly used 炁 (preheaven energy), but not 气 (post-heaven). All other- fantasy.

If you want to know more about Chi...Link: Chi

It would seem certain types of qigong generate a lot of hot air also.

 

Those of us here that have tried to help you have made the effort to learn qigong from legitimate masters and lineages. Whether you like this fact or not, we know more about the subject than you do. Your putting up a few Chinese characters and repeating some stuff you've read in books is a really pitiful effort in comparison. Some of us here have travelled thousands and thousands of miles to learn and spent many hours over the years practising. Your knowledge and understanding doesn't compare.

 

That you assume you know more because you are a native of the culture is a common enough mistake-not just with Chinese people, but also those from other countries that assume non-ethnic people couldn't possibly grasp 'their culture'. Mistake it is though.

 

You can chose to ignore other opinions, or you could go and actually educate yourself on the subject. Your choice. Just don't think that consistently repeating the same thing over and over is going to change anything.

mjjbecker...

Yes, all the things you had learned do compare. I am hearing them all my life almost. Most of the Chinese were told that way too because that was how the Chi Kung masters were taught. I just don't buy this idea just like you don't buy mine. However, there is another side of it that you will never be told. I am here just to mention it to put in my two cents worth; but you have to compare it yourself and make your own judgment. May be it would be something that you might want to consider or just put it behind your head.

A word about "breathing", it is an esoteric term for all Chi Kung practitioners. The term "breathing" was understood as "abdominal breathing" to a Chi Kung practitioner. The abdominal breathing method is the ultimate goal of Chi Kung. If one talks about Chi Kung without knowing what "abdominal breathing" was, one just get ignored.